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Thread: DAVIS LAKE Car Top Boat launching area closures, Jenkins/CowCreek etc.

  1. #11
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    No apology required WLREDBAND. Here's a little more information for you and everyone else concerned about access issues for your fellow flyfishermen/women as to what is taking place at Davis Lake so everyone can better understand the situation. I was trying to explain the situation concise and clearly and not rant as you said so that people such as yourself and everyone unfamiliar with the situation can understand what is going on and perhaps lend support and shoot off a quick email for access in support of your fellow flyfishermen/women. Apparently I have failed you in that regard.

    Let me try again.
    What is currently going on at Davis Lake is the closure of Jenkins Point and Cow Creek which are important areas for launching various small craft for many users (car toppers). They are both dirt points extending into the lake on the west shore which are sheltered from the wind giving close access to fishing areas without having to boat unsafe long distances. Both points have been in use for 54 years since the dam was built in 1967 and the lake formed. This isn't a natural lake that is environmentally sensitive it is a man made reservoir. There are no environmental issues here or damage from car toppers. People aren't driving along the lake shoreline they are simply driving to the waters edge just like what is done at developed points such as Camp 5 which now has a paved road out, a parking lot and concrete boat ramp. Cattle have been allowed to graze the shoreline since I have been fishing the lake some 35+ years trampling the shoreline, trampling the creeks, urinating and defecating all over leaving behind cow pies to be washed into the lake, tearing up the shoreline leaving behind deep holes from them sinking into the muddy areas. So the cattle grazing all over might be considered much more environmentally damaging than anyone driving to the waters edge on hard packed dirt out onto either Jenkins or Cow Creek point.

    The lake was undeveloped for decades. Nice and natural. Then in went the paved roads, paved camp grounds, parking lots, concrete boat ramps and development. Some would say that isn't environmentally friendly. Personally, I would prefer the lake undeveloped as it once was but I am ok with the development just leave a few spots for people that need to launch from the shoreline. Also, Car toppers aren't backing their vehicles into the lake they are simply parking at the waters edge. Their vehicles are not going into the water with brake dust on the axle, axle grease, road grime and dirt, axle grease from the trailer so it could be argued that what car toppers are more environmentally friendly than all the pavement/development/boat ramps and vehicles going in the water. Just to be clear, I am not against the development or power boaters, I/WE simply want to have a few places left for ourselves. As I stated above these points have been in use for 54 years since the reservoirs formation but now USFS is closing this access apparently to force people to developed areas and concrete boat ramps which don't lend themselves to car top launching so that they can charge fees.
    I don't mind paying a fee. I just need a safe place I can drive to the shoreline get in my kayak and leave my wheelchair at the waters edge unmolested awaiting my return as I have been doing at these areas for some 35+ years.

    Aside from myself the closures also affect anyone that is "car topping" that needs to have a little time off loading their boat and loading up the boat with gear which spending 20-30 minutes on a boat ramp doesn't allow. I know a lot of guys that use prams and they have little kicker motors so they have to get that out of the truck and bolt it on and then grab their gear which takes a bit of time. A car topper with a pram on the roof isn't loading up the boat on a trailer in the parking lot before launching. A car topper is popping their pram/canoe/ off the roof and then loading it up. That can't be done on a boat ramp as it takes a bit of time. A lot of car top users use these points as opposed to boat ramps for that exact reason ,,,,,so they can take their time and load up.
    So that's the issue here, I hope it's a little clearer.


    Pictures of the Cattle. This picture was taken right across from the closed off northside of Camp 5 point. You can see the ripped up shoreline from the cows as it is soft mud along the shoreline in that area.
    I once witnessed two bulls going at it for a half hour 50 yards from me at cow creek kicking up a dust storm. It was quite the wild seen.
    This photo is an example that a vehicle simply parking 10 feet from the shoreline on hard packed dirt is far less damaging than cattle freely roaming the shoreline all around the lake tearing it up.

    As an example picture of the northside of Camp 5 point a nice open flat area with plenty of area for parking that had been in use for decades that has been closed off with boulders and logs by the USFS. I loved launching from here because it is very flat which I personally need and I could leave my wheelchair blocked by my vehicle and had a short paddle south to the dam area to flyfish or north to Jenkins if that point had a lot of vehicles.
    You can see a "handicapped fishing jetty" in the distance.
    All sorts of people used to park on the northside Camp 5 point pull out a chair and fish. So now they can't but USFS saw fit to spend thousands? ten thousand+? on a jetty that 90% of the time high and dry is out of the water and no one uses instead of leaving open the northside of the point to parking and fishing. It's all a money grab my fellow flyfishermen/women.
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    Last edited by FREEDOM-FLYFISHER; 08-24-2021 at 08:37 AM. Reason: Add pictures

  2. #12
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    Just got off the phone after a lengthy conversation with District Ranger Kelli Ward of the Plumas County USFS. I did my best advocating on behalf of all car top users of the access launching areas on Davis Lake that use Jenkins, COw Creek etc.

    There is GOOD and BAD NEWS to report. I will try and give you a synopsis of the conversation and the points being brought up by both sides.
    First of all their plan (the BAD NEWS) that has been in place and was being implemented (as you know the recent closure of Jenkins) is to close off all shoreline access to vehicles thereby eliminating all car topping at Davis Lake. Part of their reason as she stated is protecting the environment which I knew they she would try and argue but it is BS and doesn't hold water as the environment is being damaged by cows crapping and wizzing all around the lake trampling the shoreline, development of all kinds, pavement, parking lots, concrete boat ramps, vehicles backing into the lake washing off brake dust, axle grease, road grime into the lake etc. So parking on hard dirt by a car topper is far less damaging to the environment. So I made that point.

    I stated that car toppers do not drive into the water whereas power boats on trailers back their vehicles into the lake with axle grease, brake dust, road grime from the vehicle, vehicle exhaust etc and asked why this isn't environmentally damaging? SO basically from my view point I have no issue from the USFS preventing idiots offroading or driving in environmentally sensitive areas but that can be accomplished with a few signs and hefty fines $1000 for driving in non designated areas and some strategically placed boulders that do not prevent users from getting to the end of a point Like Jenkins/Cow Creek. So preventing people from parking on dirt at Jenkins/Cow Creek etc is not an environmental issue at all in my opinion.
    We also talked about access at Mosquito Slough and how that parking area has shrunk and Lightning Tree and how users were able to drive on hard packed dirt to launch at Lightning Tree to access Grizzly Arm and what can be done to create better access on the north east side of the lake for safe access to Grizzly arm.

    On behalf of disabled persons/disabled veterans/myself and all car toppers I discussed the northside of Camp 5 one of my favorite launching spots which was closed off a few years ago with logs and boulders and why that was closed and if it was designated environmentally sensitive why would that area be designated environmentally sensitive while the rest of the point isn't and why can cows crap and destroy the shoreline 100 yards away? She had no answer and agreed and questioned the logic and expressed that she would research that further and see what could be done.
    I asked why hundreds of heads of cattle are allowed to graze freely all around the lake but users can't park on hard dirt close to the shoreline? I brought up how the cows tear up the shoreline sinking into the mud leaving behind deep hoof prints, urinating leaving behind cow patties etc and why isn't this considered environmentally damaging to the lake shoreline? So all that right there pretty much blows a hole in that entire USFS argument.

    Just to be clear, I am not against the cattle grazing around the lake. Just keep them out of the actually environmentally sensitive areas the creeks like Cow/Freeman/Grizzly creek (which Battling Bob Baiocchhi fought for) the rest of the shoreline as I see it isn't environmentally sensitive. The grazing has been going on for forever and I like my tri tip.
    Also I am not against development and improvements such as paved roads, parking lots, concrete boat ramps etc....I just believe access should remain for all users and parking 20 feet from the shoreline in a designated area should not be closed off.

    That's about the gist of it really. So the (GOOD NEWS) is they are currently reviewing the issues and contemplating what is going on. She (they....USFS) admittedly had no clue of the lakes use and car topper flyfishermen/women so I also explained that car top users need these areas to safely access fishing areas at different times of the year to get to where the hatches are going off and the fish are.

    So basically I took away from the conversation that the USFS is willing to consider car top users and our needs. She is going to further research the issue and stated she will bring it up for review by USFS personnel and Christopher Carlton Forest supervisor and the powers that be.

    Once again I want to emphasize that now is the time to make your voice heard while they are listening and we have their ear, before it's too late and car topping at Davis is gone for good.
    Send an email.....make a call. In the time you type a post on here you could have written an email on behalf of yourself or your fellow flyfishermen/women and done something good for the flyfishing community.

    GOOD LUCK to ALL!
    GOOD FISHING!
    Last edited by FREEDOM-FLYFISHER; 08-26-2021 at 12:19 PM. Reason: corrections

  3. #13
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    Just to let anyone that cares about fishing access for all of your fellow flyfishermen/women you should email all three persons that are reviewing Davis and Frenchman's lakes access.

    Christopher.Carlton@usda.gov

    Keli.Ward@usda.gov

    rachel.bauer@usda.gov

  4. #14
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    Hello my fellow flyfishermen/women.

    Here are some additional contacts at the Plumas County USFS that I had been in contact with and I forgot to provide that are responsible for recreational opportunities in Plumas County. I would recommend including them in any emails you send to the USFS as they have input into decisions as this access issue at Davis/Frenchman's will be decided by committee. If you have sent emails to Christopher Carlton, Keli Ward or Rachel Bauer simply forward to these emails as these individuals are responsible for seeing that all users are considered in USFS policy.

    It has come to my attention today 9/15 after speaking with the USFS acting District Ranger Rachel Bauer that Kaitlyn McGlamery is responsible for enacting the Jenkins closure so I suggest making sure she hears your voice and particularly Forest Supervisor Christopher Carlton as he is ultimately responsible for what takes place in Plumas County National Forest.
    GOOD LUCK!



    Kaitlyn McGlamery
    Public Services Staff
    Plumas National Forest
    p:530-836-7120
    kaitlyn.mcglamery@usda.gov

    Erika Brenzovich
    Recreation and Lands Program Manager
    Plumas National Forest,
    Supervisor's Office
    p:530-283-7798
    c:530-927-8532
    erika.brenzovich@usda.gov

    Evelyn Breedlove
    Lead Recreation Technician
    Plumas National Forest
    Beckwourth Ranger District
    p:530-836-7123
    f:530-836-0493
    evelyn.breedlove@usda.gov
    Last edited by FREEDOM-FLYFISHER; 09-15-2021 at 02:13 PM.

  5. #15
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    MPO.......the Feds and Globalists want all humans out of the rural open wild lands and into big cities so they can be more easily controlled.

    All part of the big plan to reduce the World's human population by 50%, ASAP. Read about Bill Gates.

    This is all public information.....they are not hiding it.

    They have been closing off access to lakes for decades. Small parking lot and a chain / barriers across the old access road.

    This saves money so there is more $$$ in the "pot" to steal.

    Feds want us out and wants to put it back to the way it was before white man came.
    Bill Kiene (Boca Grande)

    567 Barber Street
    Sebastian, Florida 32958

    Fly Fishing Travel Consultant
    Certified FFF Casting Instructor

    Email: billkiene63@gmail.com
    Cell: 530/753-5267
    Web: www.billkiene.com

    Contact me for any reason........
    ______________________________________

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kiene semi-retired View Post
    They have been closing off access to lakes for decades. Small parking lot and a chain / barriers across the old access road.


    Feds want us out and wants to put it back to the way it was before white man came.
    Your first sentence is spot on 100%. USFS Plumas County has been squeezing users into tighter and tighter areas a perfect example is Davis Lake/Camp 5/ Mosquito Slough which had an open area with plenty of space for vehicles but now that has shrunk and can no longer accommodate 1/3 of the vehicles that were once able to park there. Same is about to happen to Jenkins and Cow Creek if not entirely closed off to car top launching. They are going to close off the point and parking area shrinking it dramatically so now we will be fighting one another for parking space if they even allow car top launching and the ability to launch. At Jenkins Point/ Davis Lake when the fishing was good there would be two dozen plus cars parked on the point everyone having a spot to park and launch their prams or tubes. I spoke with USFS Rachel Bauer Acting District Ranger yesterday....they are in the process of placing boulders and closing off Jenkins.

    Your second sentence I quoted I do agree it is the case elsewhere on USFS lands but on Davis/Frenchman's and various lakes they use development to control and restrict users. Frenchman's and Davis were once not long ago undeveloped lakes with undeveloped roads, the entire lake all around the lake was natural and undeveloped. Access was on dirt roads cut by users or USFS and logging roads etc. Jenkins as one example was a rough road with deep pits of rutted out deep puddles we had to cross each spring. NOW USFS sees fit to paving and development and control of the user and limiting access. I prefer the way it once was, but I have no issue with any development, paving of roads, parking lots, concrete boats ramps etc as long as it allows users (car toppers) to use the lake without having to lose launching areas or be squeezed into small parking areas. The problem as I see it is the USFS in their actions they try and control everything to squeeze $$$$$ and in turn shrink parking areas, close off launching areas on points and as we know restrict certain users from car top launching and parking as needed.
    Last edited by FREEDOM-FLYFISHER; 09-16-2021 at 09:42 AM.

  7. #17
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    I spoke with Acting District Ranger Rachel Bauer, Beckwourth Office Plumas National Forest yesterday 9/15 for a half hour discussing various issues related to the ongoing closures at Davis Lake, Jenkins/Cow Creek etc.

    This is what I learned....

    First off, they are rotating District Rangers on a monthly basis and will be doing so for the next 6 months plus until they decide on an individual hire. This is irrelevant to our cause. The effort and your voice emails/calls need to be directed to the USFS FOREST SUPERVISOR Plumas National Forest Christopher Carlton Christopher.Carlton@usda.gov p:530-283-7810 c:530-927-7713 as he is the big cheese and ultimately the one who signs off on everything as far as I have gathered although there is definitely input from a variety of individuals. This is a federal government bureaucracy of the worst kind and they can screw over users with any excuse and bull reason as they choose but it is done by committee and there is input from the individuals I have listed on this thread and others I am unaware of.

    Second, It appears this individual Kaitlyn McGlamery
    Public Services Staff
    Plumas National Forest
    p:530-836-7120
    kaitlyn.mcglamery@usda.gov is entrusted and responsible for pushing forward on the closure of Jenkins Point to car topping and closing off the parking and access and launching. She is following USFS policy and decisions as to what the Plumas County USFS wants done with the lake. From what Rachel Bauer told me this Kaitlyn is the one planning where the boulders will go and how much area there will be for parking so I strongly suggest you email and call her and leave messages and let her know that we as car toppers need launching on the end and all around Jenkins point and plenty of parking as Jenkins has historically seen a dozen-30 plus cars on any given weekend when the fishing is good.

    Third, They can claim any BS as to why they are closing off access. I have heard all kinds of excuses and bull reasons such as it isn't a "designated USFS road" meaning the area around a point such as Camp 5 northside or Jenkins isn't a designated access road so therefore we can close it off by throwing logs and boulders. But of course the rest of the point they can do as they see fit and put in a paved parking lot and boat ramp etc. They can also BS claim they are doing it in the interest of "environmental protection". This is laughable and I have challenged them on this and both Keli Ward and Rachel Bauer have acknowledge the lunacy of their position but once again it is done as a bureaucracy. For instance they have closed off Camp 5 northside for "non designated road" and then tried to claim it was in the interest of environmental protection. I showed them pictures of the cattle trampling the shoreline a hundred yards away from Camp 5 in the cove(pictures on this thread) but the hard packed dirt we park on is in their bs claim environmentally sensitive. What about the entire shoreline the cattle are free to roam and trample?. So basically they can lie right to your face and make up any claim and lie and do as they see fit.

    One thing I have learned dealing with this bloated federal bureaucracy is that everyone at the USFS tries to pass the buck to someone else and not take responsibility. BUT,,,,Ultimately the Forest Supervisor Christopher Carlton is responsible for what takes place in Plumas County so I strongly recommend directing your #1 focus and voice to him as he can't shuck responsibility. Email/call everyone I have listed include them in your email address for any letters you send and forward your emails to all of them.

    It's crunch time.
    They are hell bent on closing off access all around the lake and don't give much of a damn but your voice does count and does have an impact. The problem has been we as flyfisherman/car toppers have been silent for too long and they have been chipping away and chipping away at access because we haven't spoken up and made our voices heard. Now is the time to put the pressure on them otherwise they are going to boulder off Jenkins Point and Cow creek to car topping and once that happens it is game over and impossible to get things reversed.

    GOOD LUCK! Keep fighting the good fight!

  8. #18
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    It's sad to read about elderly folks falling victim to conspiracy theories.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odonata View Post
    It's sad to read about elderly folks falling victim to conspiracy theories.
    Actually what is really sad is the younger generations that have succumbed to the indoctrination that you should not think for yourself. Instead of standing up for what you believe is right, your government knows what is best for you. They will teach you that in schools, through the media and on the Internet. They want you to learn that you should not question their authority on such matters.

    As we get further and further away from the Revolutionary war the generations forget the lessons of the past and rely on the government to provide all the answers. The older generations knew that governments are basically a necessity but, they have to be watched carefully as they tend to become more corrupt the longer they stay in power. There is an old saying that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is why older people with their vast wealth of experience should not be taken lightly, they have seen the changes and know what those changes lead us to.

    Take an older person to lunch today, then just listen, you may learn something.

    Regards,
    Tim C

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FREEDOM-FLYFISHER View Post
    I spoke with Acting District Ranger Rachel Bauer, Beckwourth Office Plumas National Forest yesterday 9/15 for a half hour discussing various issues related to the ongoing closures at Davis Lake, Jenkins/Cow Creek etc.

    This is what I learned....

    First off, they are rotating District Rangers on a monthly basis and will be doing so for the next 6 months plus until they decide on an individual hire. This is irrelevant to our cause. The effort and your voice emails/calls need to be directed to the USFS FOREST SUPERVISOR Plumas National Forest Christopher Carlton Christopher.Carlton@usda.gov p:530-283-7810 c:530-927-7713 as he is the big cheese and ultimately the one who signs off on everything as far as I have gathered although there is definitely input from a variety of individuals. This is a federal government bureaucracy of the worst kind and they can screw over users with any excuse and bull reason as they choose but it is done by committee and there is input from the individuals I have listed on this thread and others I am unaware of.

    Second, It appears this individual Kaitlyn McGlamery
    Public Services Staff
    Plumas National Forest
    p:530-836-7120
    kaitlyn.mcglamery@usda.gov is entrusted and responsible for pushing forward on the closure of Jenkins Point to car topping and closing off the parking and access and launching. She is following USFS policy and decisions as to what the Plumas County USFS wants done with the lake. From what Rachel Bauer told me this Kaitlyn is the one planning where the boulders will go and how much area there will be for parking so I strongly suggest you email and call her and leave messages and let her know that we as car toppers need launching on the end and all around Jenkins point and plenty of parking as Jenkins has historically seen a dozen-30 plus cars on any given weekend when the fishing is good.

    Third, They can claim any BS as to why they are closing off access. I have heard all kinds of excuses and bull reasons such as it isn't a "designated USFS road" meaning the area around a point such as Camp 5 northside or Jenkins isn't a designated access road so therefore we can close it off by throwing logs and boulders. But of course the rest of the point they can do as they see fit and put in a paved parking lot and boat ramp etc. They can also BS claim they are doing it in the interest of "environmental protection". This is laughable and I have challenged them on this and both Keli Ward and Rachel Bauer have acknowledge the lunacy of their position but once again it is done as a bureaucracy. For instance they have closed off Camp 5 northside for "non designated road" and then tried to claim it was in the interest of environmental protection. I showed them pictures of the cattle trampling the shoreline a hundred yards away from Camp 5 in the cove(pictures on this thread) but the hard packed dirt we park on is in their bs claim environmentally sensitive. What about the entire shoreline the cattle are free to roam and trample?. So basically they can lie right to your face and make up any claim and lie and do as they see fit.

    One thing I have learned dealing with this bloated federal bureaucracy is that everyone at the USFS tries to pass the buck to someone else and not take responsibility. BUT,,,,Ultimately the Forest Supervisor Christopher Carlton is responsible for what takes place in Plumas County so I strongly recommend directing your #1 focus and voice to him as he can't shuck responsibility. Email/call everyone I have listed include them in your email address for any letters you send and forward your emails to all of them.

    It's crunch time.
    They are hell bent on closing off access all around the lake and don't give much of a damn but your voice does count and does have an impact. The problem has been we as flyfisherman/car toppers have been silent for too long and they have been chipping away and chipping away at access because we haven't spoken up and made our voices heard. Now is the time to put the pressure on them otherwise they are going to boulder off Jenkins Point and Cow creek to car topping and once that happens it is game over and impossible to get things reversed.

    GOOD LUCK! Keep fighting the good fight!
    3rd time commenting on this issue. I've been in this fight for 50 years. Plain and simple, follow the money. Congressman LaMalfa has directed the Plumas to monetize the forest in every way possible. To this end the USFS Plumas has contracted with Outdoors in Plumas to do just that. The Plumas is now charging $10.00 to WALK in to see Frazier Falls, Mt Hough, and Mills Peak. Lake Davis is simply a whiff in the wind. The plan is to direct traffic to pay to play launch sites such as Camp 5, Mallard and Lightning Tree. If you want a season pass, you have to pay for EACH launch site on Davis. I admire your effort, but you are barking up the wrong tree. This is a congressional issue and the district ranger will not risk losing his/her job to skirt LaMalfa's directive. Petition LaMalfa, NOT the forest service. And vote to replace LaMalfa when the time comes.

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