Deleted Thread about Killing Stripers?

[mikel]

So...the growing number of drift boat guides running small OB motors on the L Sac (Redding to Red Bluff) need a 6 pack license, or is that part of the river exempt?

Thanks! -Mike

[Mike McKenzie]

Mike,

I'm not sure about whether or not there is a lower limit on Horsepower or not. Knowing the federal government I doubt it. It might be possible that the regs don't apply above the Red bluff Diversion Dam, again, I'm not sure. It would be best to call the Coast Guard and find out for sure... 510-637-1124....or.....get those arms in shape and start rowing again!

[Bob Laskodi]

There is no horsepower requirement. If your vessel is powered by a motor, you need a USCG license on ANY declared US navigable waterway, if you are a guide for hire using a powered boat. But, the loophole is that USCG has enforcement authority only on tidal influenced rivers, so in actual practice on rivers in CA, it only affects inland waters such as the Delta.

[Mike McKenzie]

Bob,

Where did you get that info?? I have never heard anything but what I stated above from the Coast Guard. The CFR's say nothing about a "tidal waters" deliniation, in fact they speak specifically about "inland waters"...
Mike

[Bob Laskodi]

Mike, I'm not sure I understand your question, but here it goes. When I contacted a USCG person about licensing requirements for fishing guides I was told, "fishing guides operating a powered boat are required to have an appropriate USCG license on US navigable waters". I further inquired specifically about drift boats/small boats on rivers operating a small auxiliary motor on occasion, and was told "if it's a navigable river (I assumed he meant listed on the Corps of Engineers list) that includes drift boats with a small motor used occasionally no matter what the horsepower rating". Amongst other discussions, I also asked why so few fishing guides have USCG licenses and he replied "it's not a very well known rule" and also stated that the USCG is the only authority he knows of that enforces USCG licensing and that the USCG has no enforcement presence on CA rivers except those that are under tidal influence. I can only add that over my past 50 years, I have only seen USCG enforcement vessels on ocean or tidal waters (including rivers in the Delta), and have never seen one on any other navigable river in this state. In addition, I have never been asked by any law enforcement personnel (of any type) for a USCG license, but I have been asked a few times by law enforcement personnel for a CA DFG guides license. YMMV, as usual.

[malbers]

A buddy and I were out fishing, and having a lively discussion about the entire banter that took place before it was gone off the message board. What we decided is that if you are really against killing a striper, trout, sailfish, etc. then you should really change you fishing tactics altogether.

There is always the chance that you will hook a fish in a way that makes it un-releaseable, (deep in the gills, deep eyeball, you get the idea). We came up with this: Tie or buy you favorite fly at Kiene's and grap your plyers (My favorite is the A.s.s. fly) an not just pinch the barb, but clip the hook off just past the shank. This way there is no chance that you will inadvertantely injure or mame a fish that may not survive. This is much more sporting don't you think? You will get the nice grab and you will know, "I had that fish" isn't that what it is all about anyway? Every now and again you might get a little more action, but that fish will swim away healthy every time.

I will listen to all opinions, but don't force it down anybody's throat or be petty. Its not necessary.

ENJOY NATURE!!!!!

[Darian]

Interesting point. For those who really are into "the grab", your idea makes a lot of sense.

In fact, many times I've done something similar while fishing for Bluegill when they're on the spawning beds and I don't want to relocate 'em. Unfortunately, if you drag a bunch of vulnerable Bluegill off their nest, they may not be able to get back in time to protect it. I don't often fish for black Bass during the spawn (....and don't condemn anyone who does) but I suppose the same would apply to them. Stripers being broadcast spawners don't have the same problem.

I really like to feel the pull of a strong fish during the fight. I haven't had the misfortune of killing too many fish by injuring one. Those fish that have been fatally injured and legal to take are kept for the table.

[Mike McKenzie]

Mike, I'm not sure I understand your question, but here it goes. When I contacted a USCG person about licensing requirements for fishing guides I was told, "fishing guides operating a powered boat are required to have an appropriate USCG license on US navigable waters".
I further inquired specifically about drift boats/small boats on rivers operating a small auxiliary motor on occasion, and was told "if it's a navigable river (I assumed he meant listed on the Corps of Engineers list) that includes drift boats with a small motor used occasionally no matter what the horsepower rating". Amongst other discussions, I also asked why so few fishing guides have USCG licenses and he replied "it's not a very well known rule" and also stated that the USCG is the only authority he knows of that enforces USCG licensing and that the USCG has no enforcement presence on CA rivers except those that are under tidal influence.

Bob,
You basically confirmed what I stated above. Regardless of whether or not there is an "enforcement presence" the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR'S) has to be obeyed just like any other law. It's like sayin' because there's no Cop around, it's OK to run a red light or a stop sign. If you're operating a vessel outside of the law and have an accident as I said previously, you are in serious trouble. Can anyone guarantee they won't be involved an accident on any given day? Absolutely not. To me it's easier to comply with the law than assume the risk and that is all I was saying.

As far as other law enforcement agencies go, I have personal experience with that....Up until 2002 you used to have to register ($200.00 a year for 6-pack boats) and display DFG "Guide Boat numbers" on your vessel. Those numbers on your boat would draw attention. I have had San Joaquin and Contra Costa County Sheriffs ask me if I had a USCG license. That requirement went away in 2002 as part of the negotiations with DFG to institute the Bay Delta Stamp

Mike

[Bob Laskodi]

Mike, just to be clear, I am in no way, shape, or form, sticking up for, or justifying for, fishing guides using powered boats that are not USCG licensed. If you are a fishing guide taking clients out for pay, and operating a powered boat on any US navigable waterway, you need the appropriate USCG license, period. I am just reporting my conversations and experiences. I do NOT ever hire any guide operating a powered boat that does not have the appropriate licenses, period.

[Charlie Bisharat]

Bob,



You make a good point and I am totally amazed that others don't subscribe to the same code of ethics.

I would have a tough time launching my boat with clients jumping aboard knowing that I was in violation of the law every single morning. Perhaps I am strange, but the guilt would eat me alive.

I want to share something with all of you. I am uneasy with the maner in which these last few threads have gone. I think it is easy for internet folks to have their written words overreacted to , misinterpreted etc. without the use of body language and facial expressions to gauge the "temperature" of someones statement.I feel differently about a one on one PM.

Having said that, I would hope that all of us might reread the post several times to be certain it does not have hidden teeth. I gage my own posts by this method. Would I say what I have written if I were staring the other person in the face.If I can answer yes to that question, the "submit reply" button gets hit.

Additionally, I think Mr Kiene desrves a lot more respect than he has gotten for providing us a FREE forum on which to share our thoughts and experiences.

Cheers , and good fishing to all.