installing loops

[HC]

Well, it's mid-winter now so there is time for tackle question or two. For those of you who hunt stripers and find the need to change lines or heads frequently, you might just be putting braided loops on you lines. How do you all tie your braided loops to your line ends? My method is to stuff the line into the 50# looped hollow braid and then tie it in using two 9 turn nail knots near the base of the braid. I put a small drop of super glue on each knot and another drop where the line tip enters the doubled braid. I have had no failures yet, but it has not been tested on giant fish! Maybe I could use the niebors dog? Also, is anyone putting loops on amnesia? I have put 35# braided loops on 30# Amnesia too, but fear maybe it could pull off at the wrong time, but I have given it a good tug test with no failure. Let us know your methods and results you have had, good or bad. Cheers, Harley

[David Lee]

Hi Harley !! Hope all is well .....

This is the method I use -

http://www.danblanton.com/gettinglooped.html

As long as the line goes into the inner braided sleeve .... it'll hold fine .

I finish the Braid/line splice by wrapping it w/ flat waxed nylon thread , then coating the thread w/ plyobond . Sometimes , I add a nail knot , sometimes not .

I haven't had one slip yet .

David

[Darian]

I've been using braided loop connectors in Baja and the Delta for several years without a failure (yet ) I started using the method described on Blantons BB and learned a minor modification from Jay Murakoshi that, IMHO, makes the loop bomb proof.

In constructing the loop itself, a splicing tool is inserted into the end of the braid and forced out thru the side of the braid at the desired point. The other end is then caught by the splicing tool and pulled into the braid until it is pulled all the way out of the outer braid. Then insert the end of the line into the braid and pull the loop back until the end of the line is near the "Y" of the loop. Then tie the end of the braid down with a nail knot(s), coat with PlioBond (flexibility), let dry and you're ready to go.

Not sure, but, I think the addition of the CA adhesive to the loop area of the braid cancels out the stretch that grabs the line.... (sorta like the Chinese finger toy ). Also, I try not to use CA glue on anything that will receive a shock during use as it tends to become brittle/crystallize over time....

I've tried several different variations of the braided loop mantra but found the one described is best and quickest for me....

[jbird]

For the amnesia, try just tying a clinch knot with it to the back loop of your head. It goes through the guides easy if you clip the tag close. Its a snap to clip it and retie when changing heads. I wouldnt trust a braided loop on amnesia or slick shooter etc.

Jay

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

David,
We too recommend the method on Dan's BB.

Darian,
I want you to show the method you described (that Jay showed you) to Andy and Jim at the shop some day.

Jbird,
Al Perryman uses that same clinch knot with Amnesia to the loop on the back end of the shooting head for many years now too.

Thanks for all the good responses.

Maybe we can have a "rigging workshop" on a Saturday at our fly shop?

[Tony Buzolich]

Several good points have been brought up. Dan's article about getting looped is by far the best. As for a double nine turn nail knot, this may be a little overkill. A single seven turn is adequate unless going big game saltwater. The key here is to only tie off at the end of the braid and let the finger puzzle work. Also, I NEVER use "CA" type super glues. As Darian pointed out super glues (or any glue or finish) that dries fast will always be BRITTLE. You DON'T want anything brittle on a line or a knot.
Using a slower drying glue like Pliobond or fleximent or any urethane based coating allows the knot and the loop to remain pliable. SOFTEX is another good pliable coating. DON'T make things brittle here.

As for the Amnesia, realize that this line is SOLID. It's a monofilament. In order for loops to work well they must compress to some degree at the nail knot while allowing the rest of the braid to move and squeeze the soft outer coating of the head or the running line. Amnesia won't squeeze or compress allowing the braid to work. A small clinch or loop knot tied in itself would probably be better than braid on mono.
TONY

[HC]

First, Thanks to all for your responses they were exactly what I wanted, Tony, I used CA glue for its penetration properties, and very sparingly. But, now I see it can do harm, so no more. As far as two nail knots go I look at it the way a sky diver looks at having a spare 'chute, If you have a failure then it becomes really important, and its really cheap insurance, but then to each his or her own way. I may be a bit of a black sheep here concerning looping the mono runners, like Amnesia, I am not ready to give up yet. I have a few ideas to try, and I need to make a tensile tester and have at it then decide what works best. Also, Darian mentioned Jay's version of the "loop", I would like to see it tied. Bill, Let us know when it happens at the shop. David I wrap the ends of the braid as well, just like you do. Harley

[Darian]

Carl,.... I was a little confused by Tony's comment at the end of his post, too. I wonder if he meant something different....

As to the need for multiple nail knots, to each his own. However, if more than one knot is used, they should be tied close to each other and at the end of the braid. If tied apart, the knot tied closest to the loop end will cancel out the effectiveness of the other. I'm, also, not sure that a second knot will provide additional security. IMHO most of the failures using this type of loop connector occur because the line covering separates from the core (assuming all knots are tied correctly) and the braided loop slips off as a result. Again IMHO, I don't believe that a second knot will hold any better than the first.....

Altho, I haven't tried Max Garth's co-axial loop, I've been told it's very reliable. Maybe I'll give that one a shot next.

[jbird]

the knot tied closest to the loop end will cancel out the effectiveness of the other. I'm, also, not sure that a second knot will provide additional security

Darian. Very well said. That is exaxtly right. The braided mono MUST stretch to effectively bite onto the line. If you have two nail knots seperated by any distance at all, the braided mono will not be allowed to stretch and grab.

Jay

[Tony Buzolich]

Carl,

Whose arguing anything? I'm certainly not. I've known Bill Nash for quite a few years as a friend and have the greatest respect for him and his knot-sense. What he does with his amnesia or how he does it, I have no idea. That doesn't mean I'm arguing anything. I'm simply agreeing with jbird about keeping the knot small allowing ease of passage through the guides.
TONY