Bead vs. Fly fishing?

[Darian]

OK guys,.... We've consdered whether beads are actually flies under ther Fly Tying Forum and I have decided that, IMHO, beads are not flies regardless of what gear they're fished on. I find that I need to have a structuerd definition in oredr to be sure what we're talking about. Since I accept that definition, then it follows (at least for me) that fishing beads is not fly fishing.

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned an article written in Salmon/Trout/Steelheader about the practice of fishing a long leader and beads to catch Salmon/Steelhead, mainly in California. The author of that article condemns the practice as a form of legal snagging. He calls the practice, "....lining...." I've heard it described as "....flossing...."

Now, we have another article written by an author for American Angler in The Rant section titled, "Peg This!" This article appears to condemn the practice if the beads are pegged but not if the beads're attached to the hook. His point seems to be that fish actaully make an attempt to hit/strike the beads and that they're snagged by the action of the hook swinging about to hook the fish. In California, a fish must take bait/fly/lure inside the mouth and if hooked outside be released unharmed.

Both authors seem to feel that pegging beads using them at all is a form of legal snagging. The condemnation appears to arise from the recognition that the method is very effective.

[Crusty]

This seems to be a rehash of a thread when Bill's new board came up (maybe two years ago?). On that thread certain posters were claiming that beads were illegal snagging rigs in California. Now those same posters seem to admit they're legal, just unethical.

I must be a double loser. I live in SoCal and I fish with beads and other flies (lures) made of natural and artificial materials tied to a hook BUT not imitating flies.

I don't think I need to post dictionary definitions to prove that sculpins and egg sucking leeches are not imitating creatures of the order Insecta. But these two flies (lures) are arguably the most popular large trout catchers in Alaska after beads. I can hardly wait for my next flyfishing...sorry flyrodding trips up to Alaska.

I'm off now to do some flyrodding in saltwater...not many insects hatching there now.

Crusty the Flyrodder

[Darian]

Hmmmm,.... Lots of righteous indignation here, Crusty. OK, I'll try to explain this again. The reason for the definition: adoption of a specific definiton from a dicitonary facilitates communication and understanding.... Loosely defining this subject means that we may not be understanding what the other person is actually saying. Obviously, you can choose to adopt your own description or none if that's your preference.

As to your point about legality, beads (flies/lures were excluded form this thread by its title) used to entice a strike/take from a fish are legal in Califiornia. Beads used to deliberatley hook (snag) fish, outside the mouth in freshwater are not. If you're hooking all of your fish outside the mouth, you're snagging and you need to change your rig to whatever configuration that allows you to hook fish legally.

I note you didn't mention any opinion about the two articles about using beads and the technique called "....lining...." mentioned in the two articles cited. One of these authors had objections to the practice. The other objected to using pegged beads. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Nobody whose posted on this thread wants to condemn anothers legal methods, beads or lures. Lighten up and join in....

[jbird]

I actually kind of enjoyed crusty's post. I wasnt offended by it at all. I thought it was fairly tactful. Just another persons pespective on this topic

Jay

[Frank Alessio]

What about those egg pattern puff ball little things? How do they figure in to the picture.....?

[Dustin Revel]

Darian,
are you fly fishing if you are using one fly and a bead posted .5" above a bare hook? this is a very come rig. just thought I would muddy the water a bit.
Dusty

[Darian]

Hi Jay,.... I wasn't offended either but did detect a slightly negative overtone in the post. Apologies to Crusty and you if I've misinterpreted.

At any rate, I was hoping to hear more about the reaction of the group to the articles about Pegging beads and "lining".... I'm hoping Crusty or any of the rest to have something to add, there.

Frank,.... According to my definition, if the "....egg pattern puff ball little things...." are tied to a hook using thread, they're a fly. If not (glue or whatever) they're not. Of course, that's only for my purposes.

Dustin,.... Muddy on.... This is a new/slightly different question.... difficult to answer using my definition.... I've read many accounts of Bass fisherman using a lure with a fly behind it (Primarily to catch Bass.... The fly is used in the hopes of catching Sunnies incidentally) and they didn't see that as fly fishing. So, IMHO, if a bead is a lure (I think it is), you're not fly fishing.... Take the bead off and you are fly fishing.

[Frank Alessio]

Darian... I know they have a real name.. I just can not remember what they are called in the Fly Shop... Anyone????? Thanks frank

[Darian]

Hi Frank,.... How about Glo-Bugs The first time I ever heard of anyone using an egg pattern was in the late 60's. A pattern called a "duffy" fly was the first. It had a thorax similar to a glo-bug, Abdomen was oval silver tinsel, and a white yarn tail. Simple, yet effective. Haven't seen any of 'em since the mid 70's....

[Dustin Revel]

i think I know what frank is talking about. they are puff balls like the ones you see in craft stores with a little mylar tinsel in them. they just slide on a hook.
Darian,
if the fish is caught on the nymph while using the rig I describe is it being caught with the method of fly fishing? I think so.
I agree with your definition of the fly, but I am skeptical when it comes to your definition of fly fishing. I can see where you have come up with the definition though Fly fishing=fishing with flies that is a pretty simple idea.
I believe is Fly fishing is a way of angling where the weight of the line is used to cast an artificial lure. the lure or sinker is not what is being cast. This is a pretty common definition i think, but it hasn't really been said here.
Dusty