Advice on frameless pontoon: Outcast Stealth Pro versus Scadden

[Bill Barron]

Brand new to inflatables and would appreciate advice re: selecting the right frameless pontoon boat:

Selection Criteria:
- To be used on primary on local stillwaters and occasionally on the American River
- Must fit into back of Subaru Outback.
-Weight (without accessories) less than 40lb (lighter is much better).
-Cost with accessories less than $2000

Have received suggestions for Outcast Stealth Pro and several Scadden pontoons that fit the above.

Questions:
- I am aware of customer service issues in the past with Scadden but several people have indicated that this problem seems to be solved. I know that Outcast has world class service. Is this any ongoing concern with Scadden?

- Is the single bladder on the Stealth Pro a concern?

- Several Scadden boats have raised oar towers on an inflatable platform. Is the raised oar position a major benefit for extended periods of rowing?

- The Stealth Pro has 5ft oars. Are longer oars better for extended periods of rowing, especially against the wind?

- Is the quality of materials different on Stealth Pro versus Scadden?
,
- Any other issues that differentiate Scadden from Outcast Stealth Pro.

- Any other pontoons that fit the bill?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Woodman]

Brand new to inflatables and would appreciate advice re: selecting the right frameless pontoon boat:

Selection Criteria:
- To be used on primary on local stillwaters and occasionally on the American River
- Must fit into back of Subaru Outback.
-Weight (without accessories) less than 40lb (lighter is much better).
-Cost with accessories less than $2000

Have received suggestions for Outcast Stealth Pro and several Scadden pontoons that fit the above.

Questions:
- I am aware of customer service issues in the past with Scadden but several people have indicated that this problem seems to be solved. I know that Outcast has world class service. Is this any ongoing concern with Scadden?

- Is the single bladder on the Stealth Pro a concern?

- Several Scadden boats have raised oar towers on an inflatable platform. Is the raised oar position a major benefit for extended periods of rowing?

- The Stealth Pro has 5ft oars. Are longer oars better for extended periods of rowing, especially against the wind?

- Is the quality of materials different on Stealth Pro versus Scadden?
,
- Any other issues that differentiate Scadden from Outcast Stealth Pro.

- Any other pontoons that fit the bill?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

The Stealth Pro and the Scaddens are very different boats. Stealth Pro is a fairly thin urethane bladder to hold the air zipped inside a PVC shell. Scaddens are a single thick layer of welded PVC. The boat and the bladder are on thing. I've had both and my feeling is that the Scadden is more durable, especially if you want to take it on moving water. I can't attest to any improvements in Scadden customer service. I didn't have terrible experience with Scadden, just not great communication, backordered things (like upgraded oars) that I had to remind him multiple times, etc. Another option to look at is Watermaster. These are full round boats rather than open u-boats. There's some benefit to that, especially when stopping in moving water to stand up and fish. One downside of Watermaster is the PVC seams are glued, which will last a long time, but eventually degrade. Welded PVC seams like on Scadden last forever.

Another thing to consider is whether you want/need a boat that you can use fins with. There are some nice boats/kayaks with full floors that give you better ability to stand up, but you can only move them with oars/paddle. I have an NRS Pike kayak that is really great for certain things as well. Also think about whether you'll want to add a motor, that may change your decision as well. Most any of them have the ability to add an anchor system, rod holders, fish finder, etc., but some are set up better than others.

Sometimes a float tube is really all you need and the oars are overkill. I have a great Scadden float tube that is super light becuase it doesn't have a nylon cover that soaks up water.

There are so many good products out there, any of which are well made and will serve you well. They each have their pluses and minuses to be considered. You'll eventually probably end up with more than one. Most of them also have good resale value if you decide you need something different.

[Bill Barron]

To Woodman,
Thanks so much for your informative and very helpful reply. 90% of my use will be on stillwater - no expectation to be moving water above Classs I. I have concluded that use of fins provides valuable maneuvering in tight places so that means open front. Scadden and Outcast Stealth Pro accommodate a transom mounted trolling motor If I add the motor (for larger lakes) the anchor will have to go on the side. Plenty of Scotty mounts on the Stealth Pro for side mounted rod holders, saddlebags, anchor and other accessories.
Yes, many good products and hence the difficulty making a decision. In the end, it may come down to intangibles.

[ricards]

Bill,

The Outcast Stealth Pro is a great boat for small rivers. If 90% of your use is for stillwater, the better option would be fiberglass pram. Pick yourself up an old TPL if you can find one. The Spring Creek Stillwater Classic is a great boat. Not a stand-up boat, though, but then again neither is a frameless pontoon boat. I've had my SCSC since 2004 and love it. A friend of mine is selling his, and it's only a few years old. PM me if you are interested.

[Bill Barron]

Ricards,
Many thanks for your suggestion.
Not sure a pram is gonna work for me. I do not have a truck and not interested in a trailer. I need something that will fit in the back of my Subaru Outback for trips in the valley and Sierras. Also, as I am older with back issues, lightweight is key. The inflatable Stealth Pro at 35 lbs is a good fit for my needs. Scadden inflatables are similarly lightweight hence the dilemma between these two brands.

[Woodman]

To Woodman,
Thanks so much for your informative and very helpful reply. 90% of my use will be on stillwater - no expectation to be moving water above Classs I. I have concluded that use of fins provides valuable maneuvering in tight places so that means open front. Scadden and Outcast Stealth Pro accommodate a transom mounted trolling motor If I add the motor (for larger lakes) the anchor will have to go on the side. Plenty of Scotty mounts on the Stealth Pro for side mounted rod holders, saddlebags, anchor and other accessories.
Yes, many good products and hence the difficulty making a decision. In the end, it may come down to intangibles.

I agree that fin control is nice to have for stillwater. I don't wasnt to be constantly putting down my rod and getting on the oars. I currently have a Watermaster for my stillwater setup. It's closed in front, but still allows fin control/propulsion. It's worth a look as well. I had one of the larger Scadden u-boats in the past, and I could put my son sitting on a cooler in the back behind the seat. When I didn't do that any longer, I sold it because it was really too big for just me. If I was looking for a u-boat again, I'd probably go Scadden. They're just so bulletproof. There are some screamin' deals on Dave's website right now.

Main thing I don't like about Scadden is no Scotty mounts, but they are pretty easy to add.

[Bill Barron]

I agree that fin control is nice to have for stillwater. I don't wasnt to be constantly putting down my rod and getting on the oars. I currently have a Watermaster for my stillwater setup. It's closed in front, but still allows fin control/propulsion. It's worth a look as well. I had one of the larger Scadden u-boats in the past, and I could put my son sitting on a cooler in the back behind the seat. When I didn't do that any longer, I sold it because it was really too big for just me. If I was looking for a u-boat again, I'd probably go Scadden. They're just so bulletproof. There are some screamin' deals on Dave's website right now.

Main thing I don't like about Scadden is no Scotty mounts, but they are pretty easy to add.

All good points. Looked at Watermaster but $$$ for a boat I will not use on whitewater. Agree that prices on Scadden boats have been reduced, but the original retail prices may be more sales gimmick than anything, allowing steep markdowns to make folks think they are getting a deal.

My impression from the many people I have asked, is that both Scadden and Outcast make excellent boats. There are devoted followers of both brands. The thing that I cannot get over, is the uneven customer support at Scadden, the fact that Scadden is a one-man show, and a history of bad business practices.

[ricards]

Ricards,
Many thanks for your suggestion.
Not sure a pram is gonna work for me. I do not have a truck and not interested in a trailer. I need something that will fit in the back of my Subaru Outback for trips in the valley and Sierras. Also, as I am older with back issues, lightweight is key. The inflatable Stealth Pro at 35 lbs is a good fit for my needs. Scadden inflatables are similarly lightweight hence the dilemma between these two brands.

I cartop my pram on my Subaru Outback. The Spring Creek pram only weighs sixty pounds, and I slide it up on my Yakima racks. The better option is to hook a trailer hitch on your Subaru and use a pole-mounted, transom-clamped, one-man boat loader to lift and swing it up on the racks. A company in Oregon (Eide) used to make them. I am not sure if they are still in business. I used to have one when I had my Western pram and they work great.

Okay, back to the issue at hand: The frameless pontoon boat. If I were to buy a frameless, it would not be an Outcast or a Scadden. It would be an NRS GigBob 2.0 with Cataract oars. A friend of mine has one and they are great. It rides high on the water, maneuvers great, and will fold up and fit in the back of your Subaru. At 44lbs., its heavier than the Scadden or Outcast, but it's a much better watercraft, in my opinion. The big benefit is the high ride. You don't get that with most frameless boats.

Not sure about mounting a trolling motor to it, however, if you absolutely have to do that. Personally, I would never mount a trolling motor on a frameless. I would go with a framed boat. But that's just me. Other might feel differently.

[Panther]

I'm facing the same decision. I have had a Scadden Renegade for five years. I have had trouble with the glued-on footrest. It pops off and makes rowing very difficult. My repairs only seem to last a year or so. The strap that attaches the seat to the frame broke off right at the frame. This is a minor problem. The footrest is a pretty major problem for me. I'm a still water fisherman. Sometimes I like to row/troll, so I have eliminated the Watermaster. Because it is not rockered, I think it would be a slug to row.

I am considering the Outcast Stealth Pro and the Outcast Commander. I like to land fish in the u shaped opening, so that would be an advantage for the Stealth Pro. But the Commander might be a little quicker if I had to row a decent distance to cross a lake. Both boats weigh 35 pounds. What do you guys think about the Commander on still water?

[Mike Churchill]

After nearly 2 decades in a Fishcat float tube, in late 2019 I upgraded to a used Scadden Skynomish Sunrise, which is a 10.5 foot framed pontoon rated for Class 3 whitewater. Rowed like a dream with long oars on solid mounts and cruised like a dream on a 36 lb thrust trolling motor. No Fins to maneuver so the choices were to cruise slowly on the motor or anchor, the latter giving the option to stand up and use the lean bar. Downside was that it was heavy and the frame was too big to fit in my old Toyota Sequoia, so I had to trailer it.

After a year, I sold it and bought a Scadden Zonker Lo-Pro Express, which is on the smaller end of his frameless boats. At first, I was very frustrated by the new boat because it sucked at the things the framed boat was good at. The Oars are short, the glued on oar locks aren't rigid enough for effective rowing, and rowing with your Fins in the water is inefficient anyway. (It does havea veryclever oar lock/oar retention system. ) My attitude changed when I realized it was a nice, big float tube rather than a small, lousy pontoon boat. 30 lb trolling motor pulls it around fine, I steer with my fins instead of the motor, and I only use the oars to reposition closer to my target and to approach my take out while facing the shore. I usually carry 4 rods in the rod holders integrated into the storage bags. I wouldn't hesitate to float the Lower American in it at summer flows, but it sounds to me that you would want one of his bigger models.

My customer service dealings with Scadden have been very good. One of the seat mount straps broke on my first outing with the new boat. Sadden quickly shipped me a new boat in exchange. When a rodent chewed a hole in the pvc bladder of the seat, I got prompt repair advice via text. Recently, my wife drove onto my deflated boat at night in our carport and broke one of the air valves. After an exchange of texts to diagnose the damage, they sent me a replacement valve and the tool to do the job for free. ($18 shipping from Utah. Haven't done the repair yet. ) so overall, I have been very pleased with both Scadden boats and his customer service.

Mike