Highway 20 access on the lower Yuba river.

[Brian Clemens]

Alot of foot-in-mouth disease here:

This thread is about the installation of a gate on a public road, blocking a legal access along the highway 20 easement on the North side of the Yuba River. When I reported it to various agencies for corrective action, I got a bunch of bullshit answers, or no response whatsoever, and no action from the Yuba County Sheriff, Yuba County Board of Supervisors, California Department of Fish and Wildlife, some confirmation (but no action) from the State Lands Commission and Bureau of Land Management; in writing. Each agency got at least two inquiries, usually three. It isn't private land that this gate is on. By "bullshit", I mean hearsay there were meetings, but there are no meeting notes, no records of anything on any agenda. Just slap that gate in and put up a private property sign on a public road. Then make shit up that there was a decision when there wasn't.

Now, whoever this "Yuba Anglers" skitch is that's selling access to pass an illegal gate on a public road, you ain't selling it to me. Your selling it to guides, who hawk it to clients, that this major tributary, and navigable waters, is "private". It isn't. Never was. Isn't now. You guides who bought these access rights to pass that gate are supporting illegal activity. I will not do business with you. I encourage anyone else who reads this thread not to do business with you. You aren't helping the situation. You are making it worse for everyone except yourselves.

So to Herr Clemens or anyone else who wants to hijack this thread, start at the beginning please. But now that you mentioned it, everything you say about sturgeon passage and the need for separating stripers is absolutely false; the Daguerre passage project is a fantastic, well researched project precisely as it is currently designed, which includes effectiveness over a huge range of flows. Although CDFW (and the State generally) has been woefully remiss in it's protection of angler access, they do much better when it comes to basic science. That's because they know; you obviously don't; and they know better than to listen to your gibberish. It's like average Joe telling the Corps of Engineers how to make flood control design decisions on the American River. After publication of final environmental documents, all public disclosures and meetings, plans and specs, bids and contract award. Just look outside they don't like what they see from the bike trail and whine like babies. None of them know squat either. And so on it goes. Jeezus. No good....errr....make that GREAT project goes unpunished these days.

Wow......
So to start off with a question, what have you done besides a phone call to change the situation. As I've stated I've personally chatted with John Messick and I've stated what's going on with the South Side gate, told you about the North Side as well. So have you pushed forward to remove that gate? If not then maybe stop whining about it, put the big boy pants on, maybe apologize to the people on here and ask for help. 1 person will not get this done. But i have a feeling with your piss poor attitude, no one is going to help you now. I know personally, I wouldn't want to cuz your attitude stinks.

If you actually went to my original comment you would have seen what I stated about the road accesses being blocked but I guess you missed that.

As far as daguerre goes, clearly by the way you talk about it you dont fish below daguerre very often if at all. You clearly have no idea about its design plans, what is or isn't happen or really anything for that matter. However, i do and while im not on the stockholder board, i get the insider info sorta speak. As far as fishing below daguerre, funny i never see you down there fishing. Hmmmmm. So how can you determine how well this works if yoj don't see what the stripers do or how they feed down there year round. 20-40lbrs. Most of these statements of yours are quiet laughable actually to where I almost spit out my beer. Truly shows your ignorance on the fishway situation and how detrimental it will be of the stripers and shad get above daguerre. You do realize right now there are no ladders on this fishway right?

The nature like fishway is a good idea, but is severly flawed, 1) it will fill in after the first big rains. 2) I guess you are OK with stripers up above daguerre dam, guess you are OK with shad above daguerre dam, both of which are invasive species and they are extreme predators to juvenile salmon trout and steelhead. I spend more time below daguerre than any 6 guides I know, and I can tell you without a shadow of doubt cdfw has done 0 studies of any kind outside of Daguerre Point dam pool. NONE. I spend easily over 60 days just between beginning of May to the end of July and all they do is putt their jet back and forth in the pool for an hour and that's it. Or they sit and throw bait catching whatever eats. So don't give then praises for doing nothing. Nice.

Funny how you want to make those fighting against this fishway like myself and others, like Mikey Wier the bad guys. So what if I tell you again CalTrout is against this, TU against this, NCGASA against, Syrcl and many more. How about these people mentioned below for instance, any of then ring a bell. Pretty big names. Aaron had been the director of the recent projects on the Yuba and he's against this fishway and it's current design. Get a clue buddy and please educate yourself on the true matters at hand on this fishway.

Aaron Zettler-Mann
Executive Director
South Yuba River Citizens League

Chris Shutes
Executive Director
California Sportfishing Protection Alliance

Frank Rinella, Chair
Conservation Committee of the
Gold Country Fly Fishers

Meghan Quinn
California Dam Removal, Program Director
American Rivers

Mark Rockwell
Director and VP of Education
Northern California Council, Fly Fishers
International

As for the gates, this would have been a great platform to ask for help, and there are people working on it, I stated what I've done so far, but unfortunately your disrespectful remarks towards those trying to put a roof over their heads and food on the table, with no other means to fish the Yuba right now was uncalled for. This is why you have failed when it comes to regaining access on the Yuba as a wade angler. This was the very best platform to do it, the amount of help you could have recieved then using social media as a backer would have been astronomical, I for 1 would have been a huge asset and helped you put anyway I can in regards to the people I know in Yuba County, the county I live in and the connections I have in this industry. But you blew it.

Here you are complaining about access which truly does suck and we should be fighting together to get it back, but it won't matter when the stripers get above daguerre. It will be the Stan and Lower Sac in Redding all over again.

One last question for ya Amoeba, have you attended any of the public hearings for the nature like fishway? Have you added any input on it? By the sounds of it probably not, everything I've stated it first and second hand information. Down to cdfw not wanting to truck sturgeon 100ft above daguerre to see if they would even successfully spawn before spending 100million on this devastating fishway,cuz they are to fragile. A 30 to 100yr old fish to fragile, but the will truck 10s of millions of salmon fry from Coleman or feather river hatchery in a truck hundreds of miles to the bay. LETS SEE YOU MAKE THAT MAKE SENSE.

[Rossflyguy]

Wow......
So to start off with a question, what have you done besides a phone call to change the situation. As I've stated I've personally chatted with John Messick and I've stated what's going on with the South Side gate, told you about the North Side as well. So have you pushed forward to remove that gate? If not then maybe stop whining about it, put the big boy pants on, maybe apologize to the people on here and ask for help. 1 person will not get this done. But i have a feeling with your piss poor attitude, no one is going to help you now. I know personally, I wouldn't want to cuz your attitude stinks.

If you actually went to my original comment you would have seen what I stated about the road accesses being blocked but I guess you missed that.

As far as daguerre goes, clearly by the way you talk about it you dont fish below daguerre very often if at all. You clearly have no idea about its design plans, what is or isn't happen or really anything for that matter. However, i do and while im not on the stockholder board, i get the insider info sorta speak. As far as fishing below daguerre, funny i never see you down there fishing. Hmmmmm. So how can you determine how well this works if yoj don't see what the stripers do or how they feed down there year round. 20-40lbrs. Most of these statements of yours are quiet laughable actually to where I almost spit out my beer. Truly shows your ignorance on the fishway situation and how detrimental it will be of the stripers and shad get above daguerre. You do realize right now there are no ladders on this fishway right?

The nature like fishway is a good idea, but is severly flawed, 1) it will fill in after the first big rains. 2) I guess you are OK with stripers up above daguerre dam, guess you are OK with shad above daguerre dam, both of which are invasive species and they are extreme predators to juvenile salmon trout and steelhead. I spend more time below daguerre than any 6 guides I know, and I can tell you without a shadow of doubt cdfw has done 0 studies of any kind outside of Daguerre Point dam pool. NONE. I spend easily over 60 days just between beginning of May to the end of July and all they do is putt their jet back and forth in the pool for an hour and that's it. Or they sit and throw bait catching whatever eats. So don't give then praises for doing nothing. Nice.

Funny how you want to make those fighting against this fishway like myself and others, like Mikey Wier the bad guys. So what if I tell you again CalTrout is against this, TU against this, NCGASA against, Syrcl and many more. How about these people mentioned below for instance, any of then ring a bell. Pretty big names. Aaron had been the director of the recent projects on the Yuba and he's against this fishway and it's current design. Get a clue buddy and please educate yourself on the true matters at hand on this fishway.

Aaron Zettler-Mann
Executive Director
South Yuba River Citizens League

Chris Shutes
Executive Director
California Sportfishing Protection Alliance

Frank Rinella, Chair
Conservation Committee of the
Gold Country Fly Fishers

Meghan Quinn
California Dam Removal, Program Director
American Rivers

Mark Rockwell
Director and VP of Education
Northern California Council, Fly Fishers
International

As for the gates, this would have been a great platform to ask for help, and there are people working on it, I stated what I've done so far, but unfortunately your disrespectful remarks towards those trying to put a roof over their heads and food on the table, with no other means to fish the Yuba right now was uncalled for. This is why you have failed when it comes to regaining access on the Yuba as a wade angler. This was the very best platform to do it, the amount of help you could have recieved then using social media as a backer would have been astronomical, I for 1 would have been a huge asset and helped you put anyway I can in regards to the people I know in Yuba County, the county I live in and the connections I have in this industry. But you blew it.

Here you are complaining about access which truly does suck and we should be fighting together to get it back, but it won't matter when the stripers get above daguerre. It will be the Stan and Lower Sac in Redding all over again.

One last question for ya Amoeba, have you attended any of the public hearings for the nature like fishway? Have you added any input on it? By the sounds of it probably not, everything I've stated it first and second hand information. Down to cdfw not wanting to truck sturgeon 100ft above daguerre to see if they would even successfully spawn before spending 100million on this devastating fishway,cuz they are to fragile. A 30 to 100yr old fish to fragile, but the will truck 10s of millions of salmon fry from Coleman or feather river hatchery in a truck hundreds of miles to the bay. LETS SEE YOU MAKE THAT MAKE SENSE.

Brian don’t entertain this clown. He only agrees with certain aspects of science he deems suitable. I questioned what he thought about the flawed salmon number returns prior to the salmon closures and he claimed they weren’t accurate to begin with but sturgeon numbers counted by the same people are good enough to create a larger bypass? He’s a walking contradiction. People like that you just let rant and turn your head. He should be a marketing tool for all to join the private land memberships so we don’t have to interact with people like that. I wasn’t gonna join but I’m definitely gonna become a member now.

[Bob G]

Reminds me of that old English saying, "Never wrestle with a Pig because you both get dirty, and the Pig enjoys it!"

[amoeba]

The gate depicted by the OP (original poster) is illegal, blocking a legal access road access which would allow pedestrian access along the State Highway easement created by the State Lands Commission. It isn't a private road, it isn't private property. There are Public records of this; some referenced in this thread. So that being true, guides are doing business with those blocking such access (putting up a gate, selling keys to pass that gate) to the disadvantage of everyone else except your clients. Hence, I recommend a boycott of each and every guided operation that does business with Yuba Anglers, so long as this blockage of Public access remains. Go elsewhere. There are other places to fish.

[Brian Clemens]

Lol. Yuba Drifters is different than the one your are referring to on the North Side of the river on Parks Bar Quarry Rd. That land owners name is Roy and its not the Yuba River Drifters that has the access at green gate above hwy20 or the access at Daguerre dam. Might want to get your blockages correct before causing an uproar for nothing. ROY is the one that put up that gate, he owns the house right before the gate. I've actually talked about this in one of my comments if you actually read it instead of spewing hatred foe those paying for access and just wanting to fish. Didn't mention his name though. Funny you are stating to boycott guides when guides aren't even using that property to launch at. What a joke. If you have such an issue with that gate, then instead of whining about it, do something about it. Just like I did about the south side gate and talking to Messick about it and see what's going on.

Unless you are playing mind games and telling everyone to fish elsewhere so you can have the Yuba all to yourself just in time for the egg bite. Oh you devil you. That's what you're up too

[amoeba]

This thread started about the North side access which was blocked by an illegal gate put up by a private person along a Public road. Why you parse it out that you are using the south access and that is somehow making you pure as the driven snow doesn't wash. It doesn't matter how or what side you got in. You sir, Brian Clemens, and your guide buddies who are paying access, are profitting from others who are blocking legal and long standing historical Public access. It doesn't even matter that you personally did not block the access. You are benefitting from illegal acts. You are benefitting because the Public doesn't get to fish there. There used to be 15-20 cars on the North side, with people walking completely legally beneath the bridge, to the water's edge, and navigating on foot upstream, even crossing to the south side at lower flows (such as right now). They don't get to do that any more. Only you and other guides that pay a thousand bucks to this (expletive) Yuba River Drifters. Much less pressure for you and your clients only. It's not your private resource. Everyone else loses. I don't know how else to put it.

As for that South access blockage and this dude associated with Yuba River Drifters putting up barbed wire so no one could go east; that too, is illegal, because it blocked a historical access. The south access west was gated by Yuba County. On the North, the east access is gated by Nordic, and this dude Roy and it isn't even his property or road at all., and to the west - this dude Roy puts all sorts of threatening signs and barbed wire. It is completely legal for wade fishermen to navigate on foot below the high water mark.

It is for these reasons I will not do business with you, and that I encourage no one else to book you, or any other guide, who does business with Yuba River Drifters.

There are numerous comments here about efforts made by myself and others to numerous contacts at the County and State: nothing is being done here or elsewhere. There's periodically been other access interference at Hallwood (signage and aggressive ticketing by Yuba County sheriff) - which is another legal access in a long-standing highway easement (not built yet). Finally, at UC Sierra - an access long sought by CDFW (and actually Public access agreed in exchange for the ceding of the Fish Hatchery on Polaris Creek up in Tahoe) was never implemented in principle and then discontinued (they had a program of 10 people per month in a paper lottery, a flawed idea concocted by then Director Banky Curtis; it went on for a few years - then poof!). Hammon Grove is the sole exception where access was improved (by road construction/parking area) although that took decades.

For all it's fishery resources, Yuba County is best known for hassling wade fishermen, progressively blocking their accesses, and doing nothing about it if they complain. When it comes to Public access, it's not whether you are for it or against it; it is a right. So either you are for Public rights, or you're not. I am, are you?


If this reputation proves anything, it's that there's little individuals like you and I can do. It's not just the lower Yuba although it is perhaps more visible by virtue of higher use. In my opinion, what's needed here is permanent and sustained leadership by the State in protecting and enhancing Public access; dedicated staff positions, and legal support. Until that happens, I expect little will change for the better, and probably the worse.

[mattv-mcfly]

Guides have been paying their dues to launch at private launches for years before all of these issues so they shouldn't get any blame. The river is still accessible we just need to approach accessing it differently. I bought an inflatable raft years ago for scenarios like this. I just got off the river today. The salmon are in which is great I haven't seen them up this early in a while. The egg bite is going to be starting soon. Didn't have a whole lot of time out there today and it was super slow just one grab. Honestly no one is missing out. If the river was absolute fire since the closures that would be different but its still the same ole Yuba River BS. It is nice and quiet out there though I will admit.

I learned how to fly fish on the Yuba a decade ago an even though I can get around these access closures just fine the closures were the final nail in the coffin for me. The Yuba was incredibly fun to fish and productive before the 2017 floods especially the area above the bridge but since the flood a lot of the good spots are gone and the new spots suck or are boring to fish. The Yuba nowadays is flat AF. It's really a hit or miss river and you need to always be moving to find some fish. It's still a decent time if you don't have to travel far and don't mind hiking a bit but a waste if you do. I use to fish it multiple times a year but now I only make maybe 5 trips a year and I live like 30 minutes away. Lets face it this road closure issue will never be resolved. The only thing that will lend an ear to any issues nowadays is money.

[mogaru]

We lost access to the Yuba and we also lost it at the Truckee. Not good.

[yubaman]

We lost access to the Yuba and we also lost it at the Truckee. Not good.

Additionally, access on the Nevada side of the Truckee down in Mogul has become more restricted, with fencing and no trespassing signs in areas where trespassing was formerly permitted. Circumstances on the Truckee are quite different than the Yuba, on the T, areas where trespassing on private land was formerly permitted, new land owners are not allowing it any longer. At times this enforcement by the property owner has crossed the line of decency and legality. No gates or questions about legal access, but other shenanigans are going on.