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Thread: Tippet size for for Steelhead?

  1. #1
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    Default Tippet size for for Steelhead?

    This is a hot topic.

    I get lots of my info from constantly asking the same question to many anglers.

    I ask the better anglers and top guides lots of questions too.

    My friend Al Perryman, who is one of the top fly fishers I know, believes that you can't catch real hot wild screaming Steelhead on anything less than 2x tippet. He really did not say that exactly. He was telling me that he believes that we should be using at least 2x tippet for Steelhead because while fishing on the Rogue River with a 6 weight rod and 3x tippet in the early Fall he was not able to consistently land the larger hot summer run Steelhead. He said they just got out a lot of line and while jumping, they just popped off the 3x tippet.

    Mike Mercer, who is a top fly fisher, told me once that the difference between 2x and 3x was really dramatic while we were fishing Steelhead on the Lower Feather River maybe 20 years ago.

    If you are indicator nymphing with lighter, softer rods, I know they use 3x and even 4x at times.

    For swinging flies in the Fall you need some tippet strength to keep from having hot fish pop your fly off on the strike.

    Joe Shirshac, Frank Pullen, Mel Jeffs and I were on the Klamath River in October in the 1970s and we found a really fresh run of Steelhead above the Green Riffle that were running 4 to 8 pounds. In those days we used Maxima Chameleon tippet material. We were all using 6# test but we all soon went to 8# because those fish were popping us off. I think that 8 pound Maxima test out at about 12# on our line testing machine.

    Joe Shirshac and I hit a big run of fresh wild Steelhead on the Trinity River in early November of 1981. They were running 6 to 12 pounds. We were using 6# Maxima on them but soon switched to 8# because we could not land them with 6.

    Some of my guide friends on the Klamath use to use 2x but now they use 1x with the bigger fish.

    In British Columbia they use 12 and 15# Maxima Chameleon for Steelhead.

    On the Dean River in British Columbia we used 10# test Maxima which seemed to hold most of those fish.

    After about 20 years of fishing the fresh run Sockeye Salmon at the Brooks River in Alaska, Joe Shirshac said that 8# Maxima was the perfect size. He said anything heavier was impossible to break off when a big Brown Bear was after your fish.

    Over in the tide water on the north coast in the 1970s they used Maxima Ultragreen in 6, 8 and 10# test depending on the water clarity.

    If the water is off color or it is dark in the morning/evening or it is really overcast I would use Ox tippet on Steelhead because you can.

    If the water is clear and it is sunny I would use 2x fluorocarbon (GrandMax). On a really light rod I might go to 3x 'GrandMax' or Rio 'Fluoroflex Plus' if it made a difference in hooking fish with small flies.

    Back in the 1970s I was lucky to fish the Gualala River when it still had a good run of Steelhead. I fished there with some really good anglers who at times used really light tippet when the river was running very clear. I think some like Hal Janssen went to 3x and 4x with size 10 and 12 flies. It was like lake fishing.

    There is a relationship or balance between rod/line size, tippet size and fly size that needs to be considered too.

    In January/February on the lower American River you can probably land those old tired and cold hatchery fish with 3x or even 4x if you have a light rod.

    I believe in using the heaviest tippet the fish will bite consistantly. Why not?
    Bill Kiene (Boca Grande)

    567 Barber Street
    Sebastian, Florida 32958

    Fly Fishing Travel Consultant
    Certified FFF Casting Instructor

    Email: billkiene63@gmail.com
    Cell: 530/753-5267
    Web: www.billkiene.com

    Contact me for any reason........
    ______________________________________

  2. #2
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    Default

    Good points - I have rarely used anything lighter than 8# maxima on the Klamath - even if nymphing you can use a non-slip loop knot to tie on a relatively small fly and still stay with heavier tippet

    On the N Umpqua I use 8# and 10# and for winter fsihing I generally use 10# and 12#.

  3. #3
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    Bill: Here on the Rogue I used 10# Maxima for both winter & summer steelhead. When you hook a big steelhead, a coho or a chinook you really need the 10# test.
    Gordon Langenbeck
    Grants Pass, OR

  4. #4

    Default

    Bill, you are a fountain of information. Thank you.

    There are many factors here and rivers here. When swinging you have to have stronger tippet for the grab and I do not go below 2X flourocarbon. When nymphing, what river are you on? On the Upper Rogue, it seems to always have some color to it and when nymphing I do not go below 2X flourocarbon. On the Trinity this year with a top guide and nymphing, he likes to fish two nymphs with 3X fluoro to the top fly and 4X fluoro to the dropper. The Trinity as opposed to the Rogue is crystal clear (before the fall/winter storms hit) and a smaller stream. I hooked and landed some very big fish on the Trinity on 4X tippet and did not break a fish off this year.

    Bill, is it true that fluorocarobon lasts for more than one year?

  5. #5
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    Well from the variety of answers you see there are a lot of different perspectives. Personally, I feel that most steelhead aren't leader shy, so why use light tippet? 6 lb. maxima (approximately the same as ~2x umpqua) is about the lightest I'll use, and that's in clear water for summer steelhead. In the winter, or in BC, I use 12 lb. maxima, especially when I'm swinging. This year my biggest steelhead was 17 lbs. and on 12 lb maxima I landed that fish in 5 minutes. Try doing that on 3x umpqua - ain't going to happen.

    Indicator nymphing requires lighter tippet than swinging as a rule, to reduce drag and faciliate sinking of the fly. On the swing it makes no difference at all what tippet you're using. The only reason I use 12 lb maxima and not heavier is once you get into 15 or 20 lb. maxima you approach the breaking strength of backing and it's always better to break off a fish than break your backing!

    I do use fluoro from time to time for summer runs in areas that are "hit hard". However I'm not convinced that the tipet material type makes that much difference. I've sat up on a high rock and tested the sink rate of various tippets. I am convinced the cros-sectional area of the tippet (drag) and the weight of the split shot matter more than the specific gravity of the tippet i.e. mono vs. fluoro. I guess what I'm saying is that eliminating drag by setting up the cast right, mending, etc. is way, way more important than tippet material.

    Ralph cutter did an interesting experiment one time with natural grasshoppers. He tied short pieces of tippet of various pound tests to them and tossed them into the river. The trout gulped them up. As soon as he tied the tippet so it could drag, the fish refused them, even the lighter tippet. So a trout would eat a grasshopper tied to 25 lb test if the grasshopper is drag free, vs, a grasshopper tied to 4 lb. test with drag. Duh, of course that makes sense, but it shows that you can easily use heavier tippet if you are adept at eliminating drag.

  6. #6
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    I like this topic. I have limited experience but I always seem to hook into screamers. I still remember my first hook up on 2005.... it was a classic black over chrome silver bullet and peeled off line like a mac truck.... and jumped like hell every run.... He handed my ass on about the 5th run and jump. I typically use my 6wt with 4X.... I always felt under gunned after that experience.... but many people told me different and explain with confidence that people land much larger fish on 6wts. I don't see how with hot fish like that and it wasn't even that big..
    "Did you catch anything".........."No, did you"........

    "Hey man, mind if I fish here?"....."Yes"...."Thanks man!"
    grgoding@yahoo.com

  7. #7
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    Lodi, California
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    I think what Bigtj stated about landing a big Steelie in 5 minutes should be given more consideration by fly fisherman, assuming you intend to release the fish. Work the fish, enjoy it, get the hook out and release it before the fish is exhausted.

    I was on the Trinity in mid-November and watched a fly fisherman with 4# leader play a 5# steelhead for 10-12 minutes. To me, that is silly. Use a leader that is strong enough to bring the fish to hand in a reasonable time, let the fish go on its way and then get back to fishing. Isn't the next grab more exciting than playing tug of war with a tired Steelie?! Just my opinion.

    When I fly fish for steelhead on the Trinity, I use straight 8# Seaguar Fishing Line, not leader material, with a float and the standard two fly set-up. If I can get a drag free drift, I will get fish no matter how clear the water.

  8. #8
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    I am surprised to find everyone using such light lines. I fish the Trinity several times a year and have had enough success with #12 umpqua tippet that I have not tried anything less. I'm wondering if I would find more results with #8 or #10. I never thought of our steelhead as being very leader shy.

    Maybe I'll give some #10 a shot next time.

    However, like others have said - maybe I should just stick with the #12 since I release them right away but I would think the thrashing on shore on rocks that I see anglers doing so often is more damaging, but that's another thread.

    Thanks for starting a good thread Bill.

  9. #9
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    I really like flourocarbon tippet. In fact my whole leader system is flourocarbon. I used maxima ultragreen for many years with great results, I still think it is the best mono available. I really think the flouro sinks faster and stays down more consistently in all conditions. I feel like (while nymphing) I know exactly where my flies are at all times in the current. I think with the mono, the line was getting washed around a little more and I wasnt as sure I was in the 'pocket' if I had a lot of leader out.
    I used to use 2X mirage exclusively but I've been using 1X more and more. Bill, you are so right, the difference between 2X and 3X is huge. I like to really pull on fish, I just cant do it with 3X. I do break off fish fairly often, maybe one of every 20 or so. I think I just pull too hard when theyre still really green. The other reason I like flouro...and this is huge....I am lazy and I dont change my leader as often as I should and I think the flouro stands up to a LOT more abuse than the mono....I think it lasts about 20 fish

    Jay

  10. #10
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    I think all this is good to talk about because it give us an idea what others are doing.

    I am more excited about Steelheading now than I have been in years.

    In the '60s and '70s I only cared about Steelhead but then they seemed to go away for a while and I got hooked on tropical flats fishing for quit a while.

    Now I am really wild about Steelhead again after having a few good trip on the lower Klamath River in September.

    I would love to catch a chromer on the coast in Jan/Feb.

    If it doesn't rain for a while some of you should hit the Russian River.
    Bill Kiene (Boca Grande)

    567 Barber Street
    Sebastian, Florida 32958

    Fly Fishing Travel Consultant
    Certified FFF Casting Instructor

    Email: billkiene63@gmail.com
    Cell: 530/753-5267
    Web: www.billkiene.com

    Contact me for any reason........
    ______________________________________

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