Are Beads Actually Flies????

[alaskanfish]

Hairstacker,

I agree, a bare hook is not a fly. And a pegged bead above a bare hook is not a fly. However it may be used for fly-fishing (technique instead of tackle), of course depending on your definition of fly fishing (see other forum). That being said, one of the more effective sockeye salmon flies, particularly in clear water, is a hook with only a few strands of flashabou applied...less is better!

But, thinking a bit outside the fly box, would you consider a tuber a fly? if so, why not a bead? If not, why? I haven't seen anyone fishing a bare tube above a hook... what about a painted bead?

Darian,

You may be onto something with the bead swap! Seriously, there is quite an art to painting beads for fooling the discerning fish. A person fishing a stock bead may not do so well, where a person who fishes a painted bead that "matches the hatch", if you will, will be way more effective. Just like tying, there are many methods and materials to painting beads. The hardest part for me was perusing and asking for help in the finger nail polish section of the local grocery store Painting, however is much more than simply brushing on nail polish, there is also spray paint, liquid latex, etc. Hmmmm a bead swap....


So, I suppose that makes me a bit unstable and undecided... I agree that a pegged bead does not constitute a fly, however I could be convinced that a painted bead does. Certainly a bead that is attached to the hook through tying or melting qualifies in my mind, likewise, a sliding bead on the leader above a hook with materials applied(like the Enfield Shad Fly).

Nevertheless, I didn't mean to go OT... simply expressing the legal definition of a "fly" according to Alaska regulation.

[Darian]

Wow!!!! Shopping in a store for finger nail polish in Alaska is a testament to real fortitude (cojones).

A painted, metal bead slid down a leader to a fly would be no different than a glass, plastic or cork bead, to me. Still is a fly.

The more I think about it the more I realize that the method's used to create flies (in the traditional sense) has been changed by advancments/developments in glues and synthetic materials. Nearly everything has changed with the exception of using thread to attach "things" to a hook and the hook itself. The amount/volume of materials isn't really pertinent. So, for the purposes of a generic definition, is it acceptable to say that a fly is something contructed by use of thread to attach materials to a hook

[Matt Frey]

Darian
I totally agree. If you use thread ... then its a fly. Gluing something plastic to a hook doesnt count in my book.

[sculpin]

I'm gonna say a bead isn't a fly and also if it's legal I could care less if someone uses one. Also if the fishing is tough and a bead is all thats working I would have no problem using one myself. If a bead is used as the head for a tied fly I think it's a fly. Otherwise all beadhead, cone head ,ect patterns aren't flies either. If thats the case I'm not a flyfisherman and never will be.

Mark

[PaulC]

I'll chip in my 2 cents I guess. I consider a painted bead closer to a fly than a store bought lure. Some paint beads and give them every bit of detail as a fly with their coatings, etc.
That level of effort isn't much different than cutting a bunch of tied on glow bug yarn. When's the last time we've seen a glow bug swap?

You can't fish beads on the Russian in AK as they are an artificial lure.
At least that is what I was told.
Whether we define them as a "fly" or not is IMHO splitting hairs.

I would love to see a similar reg in place limiting the distance pegged to 1" or less from the hook tie in point. It would be nice to see a similar reg limiting the leader length of guys swinging. At a certain length, it is pretty much flossing.
How our understaffed DF&G would enforce that....good luck.

I consider the use of beads as fly fishing in general as one has the same nuances of provided a dead drift, adjusting depth, etc. Its not live bait and not a super duper.

This is a bit off topic, but the one thing that has always tripped me out about beadfishing in general is the productivity reduction as a function of the bead's proximity to the hook. Why is that? It is totally repeatable.
Not getting hooked up, look at the bead. Its next to the hook. Move up to .5 inches, repeg and bam...fish on.
Why the reduction in strikes? Aerodynamics or are the fish really that picky and see the hook?
Anyone else notice this and have any thoughts?

One technique I've been using to reduce this problematic behavior is tying a nailknot with a separate piece of mono below the bead to provide a stop.

-Paul

[PaulC]

Hey Darian,
A friend nailed a bunch of perch with a cigarette butt on the hook? If he tied it on with thread would it be a fly?

I see what you're getting at. The thread thing.....
Some of the surf patterns are very little thread and more adhesive than anything nowadays. Maybe just the definition of using ones hands to create the object you're throwing?
But how would that differentiate a plug from a fly?
-Paul

[Flyjunkie]

The California DFG classifies a Fly as "An Artificial Lure constructed using the methods Know as Fly Tying" (or something Close to that)

SOOOOO a Bead Pegged on the Leader above a Bare Hook ISN'T A FLY....

Whats soo Bloody Hard for a number of Folks to understand about that???

The Current issue of American Angler has a very Good "Rant" in it regarding the use of Pegged Beads in Alaska... The Gent makes some Great calls regarding this Practice.. in all honesty I gotta agree with him...

Bottom Line is this (In My Humble opinion): When one decides to Peg a Plastic Bead above a Bare Hook, even if it's on a tapered leader attached to a Fly Line, being presented with a Fly rod & reel, That person is No Longer FLYFISHING ( Remember the Pegged Bead ISN'T A FLY) They are Merely using the Fly rod as a Vehicle to present an Artificial Bait...

I Understand the Limitations of Flyfishing..which are basically One's Own abilities to Present a FLY in a fashion that will get a fish to grab it...

as was stated before.. if there's No thread involved and it wasn't Tyed.. It Ain't a FLY.... period...

DEAN ~~~

[Darian]

Paul,.... Interesting about the reduction in productivity due to proximity of the beads to the hook.... The only thing I can think of is that Salmon/Steelhead aren't taking the beads at all.... of course, if the fish is fairly hooked, it isn't snagging. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense. Oh well....

As in the other discussion, it's difficult to keep this aimed at the original question dealing with what constitutes (construction/design) a fly Too easy to mix the two subjects of fly fishing and fly tying.

Exploring what constitutes a bead may or may not clarify this subject somewhat. A bead may be made of solid materials such as Plastic, metal and/or glass. Also, beads may be formed from colored epoxy, UV Knot Sense or hot wax. With few exceptions, a bead is, in fact, made from synthetic material.... So are lures and most flies nowadays. Attaching a bead may be accomplished thru tying it on with thread or by gluing or melting it to the hook shank. The same way a fly is "tied". Not sure whether this is going anywhere productive.... Lures/plugs are made the same way and using the same materials, as well.

The difficulty in attempting to deal with this subject is the same as an old saying, after I had all of the answers, they changed the questions. After all of this, I can't specifically define what is a fly but I know one when I see it. For me, beads (fished by themselves) ain't it.

[Darian]

In my prior post, I forgot to address whether anything tied on a tube is a fly. Altho, our discussion only included tying materials to a hook, it isn't a stretch to apply the same "....thread...." reasoning to support a tube as a fly. SOoooo, IMHO and for the purposes of this discussion, I believe materials tied to a tube by a thread(s) is a fly.

The more I think about the info exchanged in this pot and the other, recent discussion, the more I believe that there is a necessity in being more specific in defining things, such as flies. If there's no basis (description/definition, etc.) for identifying something (e.g. a fly vs lure or anything), communicating is made more difficult than necessary to promote understanding. In that respect, I guess I'm a traditionalist.

I do believe in the principal of to each his/her own and do not believe that being specific conflicts with anyones need to be general and all inclusive.

[steve sullivan]

This is a bit off topic, but the one thing that has always tripped me out about beadfishing in general is the productivity reduction as a function of the bead's proximity to the hook. Why is that? It is totally repeatable.
Not getting hooked up, look at the bead. Its next to the hook. Move up to .5 inches, repeg and bam...fish on.
Why the reduction in strikes? Aerodynamics or are the fish really that picky and see the hook?
Anyone else notice this and have any thoughts?

One technique I've been using to reduce this problematic behavior is tying a nailknot with a separate piece of mono below the bead to provide a stop.

-Paul

I honestly do not know what it is???