Are Beads Actually Flies????

[Darian]

Ok guys,.... Here's the follow-up question for the Poll under the topic, is bead fishing fly fishing ..... Are beads placed on a leader (pegged or free sliding, tied or glued to, or melted onto a hook) actually flies

This subject shouldn't be overly controversial as what we're considering is fly construction/design....

IMHO, Beads incorporated into a fly design (e.g. Copper John, beadhead flies, etc.) are flies as the intent of their designer is to create a "fly" for use on whatever type of gear. Beads, whether slid down a leader, pegged, melted or glued onto a hook, tied to a hook by itself are not flies in the traditional sense. I like this definition as, when it comes to fly creation/design, I am a bit of an ol' fart, traditionalist.

Having said that, I believe there's a lot of room for discussion here and am open to all suggestions. One fly design that uses a bead slid down a leader that's attached to a convential fly design is the Enfield Shad Fly. I consider this to be a fly as it is traditionally designated so. But, it does highlight the ambiguities involved.

Let's have some fun....

[Matt Frey]

This seems like an easy question for me.
To tie a fly in my opinion ... you need to use thread. If you arent using thread to tie down some form of a material to a hook, well then you arent tying a fly.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I think it is a personal choice whether we use a plastic bead as an egg imitation ourselves.

If it helps new fly fishers catch fish on a fly rod I think it is maybe a good thing.

Right now on most Valley rivers with some Fall salmon spawning going on, the best way to catch Steelhead or resident trout is with an indicator and an egg imitation.

Looks like the plastic beads are best.

My friends who have guided in the top Alaska lodges for over 20 years have been using beads for a long time. They actually sent me a selection of beads they sell to many of the other Alaskan lodges to catch giant lake run Rainbows in small rivers.

I don't know if the CA DF&G consider a bead to be a fly in some of the "fly fishing only" waters?

At one time people where getting fined by the CA DF&G over at Putah Creek in the winter (fly fishing only regs) for using a glow bug which the DF&G did not recognized as a "fly" at that time. This could have changed now though.

If a seasoned fly fisher is catching 10 Steelhead a day or 30 trout a day on beads, maybe it's time to move to something more challenging?

I think guides have to use what ever methods are most effective so they can make a living. Producing consistent numbers of fish per day is their job.

Myself, I don't need to catch many fish to be happy anymore. I get excited just having the time off out in the wilds with friends.

[alaskanfish]

Think about this... In my opinion (at least where I fish) two of the most universal "flies" (actually streamers) are the "Wooly Bugger" (WB) and the "Egg Sucking Leach" (ESL). These flies, of course, are of very similar design. What if a person is fishing a WB but wanted to convert it to an ESL by simply sliding a bead in front of the WB? In appearance, this new "fly" would look very similar to the ESL tied with orange chenile (maybe even better?). So, is it a fly?

In a regulatory sense, in FFO areas, this would not necessarily meet the legal definition of a fly. But I ask, what is the difference between an ESL and a bead enhanced WB?

Bill, I really appreciate what you are saying, on all accounts. As a guide, some folks are paying for fish where others are paying for fishing... huge difference. It is important to quickly identify where the guests are in this arena. Those who are paying to catch fish will get the most productive means of catching fish. Though the experience for some will be exceedingly shallow, for the novice, catching is what it is all about.

Likewise, for the more experienced and accomplished fisher, it is all about getting better, learning more, and enjoying not only the challenge, but the surroundings while experimenting with different patterns and techniques. I really appreciated what you said about the accomplished fisher... if they are constantly producing great numbers of fish, maybe it is time to gain a little depth and stretch their abilities... maybe try to avoid the smaller average sized fish or even the more prominent species in any particular body of water and target the trophy sized or a specific species...? I am babbling...

For example, at least in the Alaska rivers/streams, in the fall, beads are exceedingly effective and will produce great numbers of fish, and sometimes large fish, however fishing flesh patterns, in the deep holes will not produce as many fish, but will typically produce larger fish. So, is the objective fishing or catching?

[Matt Frey]

Alaskanfish
I am confused ... those both sound like flies to me. How do the regulations differentiate the two?

[alaskanfish]

Matt,

I agree with you, but legally, technically, if a bead is used in an FFO area, it must be permanently attached to the hook; it cannot be pegged or free sliding. Doesn't particularly make sense to me either. In my opinion, an ESL will fish the same as a WB with a bead slid down the line. I do not see any advantage (or enhancement of ability to catch) with this rig, or increase danger of foul hooking or deep hooking. However, the advantage is if I don't have an ESL, but do have WB's, I can quickly simulate the ESL, if that makes sense...

[Matt Frey]

Okay now I am following you. I did not realize that the bead was free moving. ... Now I need time to think!

[Darian]

Hmmmm,.... So Far, the responses are quite broad....

For the purposes of this discussion, my intent in asking the question was to expand the discussion to what we think a fly is rather than what is legal in, say, Alaska or Montana or wherever. When I sit down to design/tie a fly, the question of legality of a particular design isn't part of my consideration..... Also, I'm not sure that where the bead/fly is to be fished is pertinent to this discussion since that definition differs in each state. If we add that factor into this discussion, we may not have a chance to arrive at a consensus.

As in the example of the free sliding bead in the other post, a WB (Egg Sucking Leech) pattern, I think that's a fly similar to the Enfield Shad Fly. IMHO, the bead is anticipated for use in and contributes to the effectiveness of the design. In the example, the pattern wouldn't necessarily be fished without the bead (altho it could be).

One of the defining factors might be, who ever heard of a Bead Swap among tiers

[Hairstacker]

Darian, you're such a trouble-maker! Nevertheless, this question seems much easier than the last one. For MY applications, it boils down to, how can a bare hook be considered a fly?

[dtp916]

As far as fly tying, one is not making a bead. You can attach the bead or peg it or whatever. Technically it's not a fly because it was not constructed, it was attached to a hook. Think about the difference of constructed and attached.

I've never fished beads, but they appear to be very effective in catching steelhead and trout. I've never had an opportunity to fish beads, and then when I fish glo bugs, I seem to do just so-so. If beads are going to catch more fish, then tell me the rig and I'll cast it.

Obviously, if you attach more materials or if your fishing an "enchanted wooly bugger" its totally a fly. There's little room for debate on the wooly bugger with a bead because its a FLY and a bead . We all agree the WB is a fly, right? So if a bead is attached then it shouldn't matter. Still a wooly bugger/ESL.

single bead = no fly
bead + wooly bugger = fly

my opinion = fish whatever you want to as long as your not breaking the law (i.e FFO doesn't qualify beads) and if you're casting a panther martin on a fly rod, no thats not a fly or fly fishing.