Bead vs. Fly fishing?

[PaulC]

I have to admit this is the most civil discussion on bead fishing on a fly fishing board.
Thats truely what makes this site so special.
I will fish beads when the water is off color and switch to nymphs with clearer water.
I have deep hooked a few fish with glowbugs and no longer fish those at all.
Almost all of the fish I have ever hooked beading have been inside the mouth, both in AK and here in CA.
Made for an easy, quick release. No harm no foul.

Most folks that know me, realize I love to tye flies. However, personally, I would rather peg a bead than fish a glowbug. Its not like glowbugs require mad tying skills.

In the end, I think it is what you're willing to toss. I fish with guys that won't break from using conventional and have a great time fishing with them.
Seeing one friend a couple years back outfish us on steelhead bouncing glowbugs using a spin rod was a true work of art.
It made fly fishing dead drift under indicator look like cheating.

The thing that gets lost in what is or is not fly fishing, is what ever happened to all of us just fishing and having fun.
One man's technique is not anothers but we're all out there having fun.
Granted, if you're out there with 10 treble hook droppers and snagging you should be shot.
Life's short, fish what you enjoy and most of all....take a break and enjoy the surroundings.

Well...here's one on a big prince nymph my buddy caught last weekend.
Beads had no place in clear water like that.
5 cartwheels later and...

[Adam Grace]

Nice steelie!

[dtp916]

That IS a nice steelie

I love that comment about 10 treble hooks and snagging

[Darian]

Hmmmm,..... Seems we've covered a lot of ground here. Some of it beyond the scope of the original question....

"Fishing beads is a very effective way of catching fish during the spawn. Many, however consider this to be something other than fly fishing. What are your thoughts? For those who do not consider beads to be fly fishing, how do you feel about nymphs?"

Did we answer the question of, "....how do you feel about nymphs?" IMHO, fishing a natural, live nymph is not fishing a fly, regardless of the equipment used to deliver the bait, but fishing an artificial nymph is.... Soooo, I guess if I subscibe to that description, I'm a traditionalist and that's OK with me.

Still a bunch of ambiguities involved in all of our responses but that's probably normal for human discourse. One thing I do have to mention is the reference to "....technical definitions not being chiseled in stone", by someone. After doing a lot of legal and IT type stuff for the state for too many years, it became apparent to me that all technical definitions are chiseled in stone until they aren't....

This was fun but I think I'm out of gas, now....

[dtp916]

Oh....it's my fault. I apologize, I thought this was a fly fishing forum, not a legal and IT type stuff forum. Looks like everything must be black or white. No room for gray. Fly Fishing or (gulp) "that other type"

[DocEsox]

Hi....new guy here who lives in Alaska. If you look up fly fishing in Websters it states it is using fly gear with an "artificial fly". If you go to "artificial" it says simply "man made". So if we go by this most basic interpretation fly fishing would have to technically mean only fishing using a man made fly imitation. The rest of the time I guess would be "fly rodding". Of course this would put the use of nymphs, wooly buggers, sculpins or anything not exactly imitating a fly outside the term "fly fishing". When I grew up dry fly purists considered use of anything else as less than real fly fishing. Having said that now....I think it's a bunch of elitist crap. Even though I spent much of my teenage years dry fly fishing the waters of Montana. I think to most people the popular definition of fly fishing is using something artificial fished with fly gear....whether it be nymphs, buggers, poppers, etc... Is a bead artificial, i.e., man-made? Certainly, I just didn't make it.

Having used glo-bugs extensively in the past, and free sliding beads I have had many fish hooked deep with them. Since I started using a pegged-bead (I use it at about 1 1/2 to 2 inches) I cannot remember having a fish hooked deep....that includes a couple of hundred trout this fall also. The techniques used by many people using fly rods for salmon is NOT flyfishing.....whenever you are attempting to line fish all you are doing is glorified snagging. And, whereas I have seen sockeye actively hit a fly in the Russian....it, unfortunately is not the common experience.

Brian

And, "yes", I do use the heathenist strike indicator, i.e., "bobber" when drifing beads. To easy for a few with elitist attitudes to give fly fisherman in general, a bad reputation.

[Hairstacker]

Hey Brian, welcome aboard!! I am not into elitism either (just take a look at my gear ) so, just to be clear, I defined the boundaries of what I consider fly fishing FOR ME, not for anyone else. What I subscribe to has nothing to do with whether I think someone else should be doing it and certainly doesn't reflect any holier-than-thou attitude towards anyone. Moreover, I don't think my failure to subscribe to someone else's definition of fly fishing makes my preference "elitist crap." No offense intended or taken, by the way.

[Darian]

Hi Brian,.... Nice to hear from a newbie on this subject. Interesting post with some strong opinions included....

"If you look up fly fishing in Websters it states it is using fly gear with an "artificial fly". If you go to "artificial" it says simply "man made". So if we go by this most basic interpretation fly fishing would have to technically mean only fishing using a man made fly imitation. The rest of the time I guess would be "fly rodding". Of course this would put the use of nymphs, wooly buggers, sculpins or anything not exactly imitating a fly outside the term "fly fishing"."

I quoted the above paragraph make an observation/point and obtain some clarification. Unless I'm missing something, nymphs, wooly buggers, sculpins are included in the definition of flies. Soooo,.... I'm assuming that you're excluding anything but a dry fly from the dictionary definition.


Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm asuming that you see wet flies, nymphs and streamers, etc., as included in fly fishing and beads as not

[jbird]

I think its time for a new subject I'm starting to get the feeling this thread wont be satisfied til an argument erupts. The integrity of these board members has made a usually controvercial issue surprisingly civil.

A hair can only be split so many times.

J

[DocEsox]

Sorry for any consternation Darian....I was just being a pain. Guess this has always been a sore subject with me....not what exactly is flyfishing but the elitist attitude some feel goes with it. My father and uncle taught me flyfishing in my teens and I have been doing it for nearly 40 years. Several years ago while living in Great Falls, MT I was fishing the upper Missouri in mid March and struck up a conversation with two california flyfishermen casting the same stretch. After about 3 hours of chucking nymphs, scuds, whatever and no action (the fish were probably too freakin cold)....I trekked back to the car and grabbed my spinning rod with a rapala attached to it. The look and cold shoulder I received from my, until recently congenial, california
compatriots was unmistakeable. They made several rude comments, moved downstream from me and took off a little later. When I finished fishing (having done fairly okay with the rapala) I returned to my brand, spanking new Ford Explorer to find one of the rear tires had a six inch knife gash in it.....nice guys. But in Montana when fishing, don't mention anything about being from California or you may just get shoot due to similar episodes with many of the locals there.

I am allowed to rail on Californians as I was once considered one for nearly 3 decades....grew up in Southern Cal.....went to USC.....etc, etc.. Have been an Alaskan since 92...with a minor in Montanaism. A very good friend of mine, who was president of the Missouri River Flyfishing Association, was absolutely in a moral dilemma several years ago while we were fishing and he was contemplating using a San Juan worm....it was almost hysterical if it weren't so sad.

Here's an Encyclopedia Britannica definition of "fly-tying" that sums up what terminal gear on the tippet classifies it as fly fishing for me:

"the hobby or business of imitating the live food of gamefish by attaching various materials to a hook. Most often used to imitate various life stages of insects, the craft also imitates minnows and other natural foods. It has been estimated that more than a quarter of a million persons pursue fly-tying as a hobby. The origins of fly-tying date to the 1st or 2nd century BC in…"

If I'm not mistaken eggs are "natural foods"....whether they be glow bugs or beads.

Brian

This is an awfully civil forum....