Leader Systems....

[Leo]

Hey Darian
Just got back from Kiene's today and ran some preminilary breaking tests on his knot machine. Test material was Berkeley Trilene XLVS17 17LB .015 ave diameter. Tied leaders and used 50LB Jinkai for bite.
Test #1 Leader broke at tip of bite at 19lbs
#2 " " " " 19 lbs
#3 Leader broke at the 4 turn knot (knot must not have seated correctly because this section should be 68lbs.)
#4 Leader broke at Bite at 20.5lbs (I think the Jinkai finish might not be hard enough, I usually use Ande or Stren.)
#4a used same leader, broke at tip at 17lbs
#5 Leader broke at tip of bite at 20lbs
#6 " " " " 20lbs
Need to run these tests again with another brand with a harder finish and maybe a slightly larger diameter as the butt section seemed a little small.
Anyone interested in a leader kit and a sample just email me your address and I will mail it to you.
Leo

[Darian]

So,.... The test does tend to confirm the increased breaking strength of the twisted system but not as much as I had thought it might. I'll be very interested in the results of the next round of tests. So far the breaking strength averages somewhere around 2.7 # heavier than the listed # test of the leader material....

[Darian]

OK guys,.... I know you guys are getting sick and tired of my questions but please bear with me on this....

After looking at and thinking about the samples (the tapered, twisted sections), I have a few more questions for Leo Guttierez....

In the longer leaders, there're two twisted sections; one smaller diameter than the other. Their lengths appear to be equal.

First, what is the purpose of the smaller diameter, twisted section added to the butt section

Second, what knot do you use to join the two sections (....It doesn't look like a "no name knot". )

Third, if a twisted section may be partially doubled and re-twisted to create a heavier butt section, why choose to make two individual sections of differing diameters and join by knotting them together.

Finally, in the partially doubled, twisted leader, one length is shorter than the other (I've seen diagrams of this but no info about the required knot). What knot would be used to tie off the shorter length to the main/standing length

Thanks to all and Leo in particular for any responses....

[Leo]

Hey Darian
I will try to answer your questions in the order that they were asked.
First... They are not equal, the butt section is longer than the mid section. There is also a 50lb bite section tied on to one of the leaders to show you what the finished no name knot looks like when finished. The heavy butt section is the mass that is needed to turn over extremely large and wet flies and poppers for sails and other critters.
Second... If you look at the instruction sheet you will see that the knot that joins the 2 sections of the leader is the four turn over hand knot that is used to finish the leader. The no name knot is used to tie in the bite at the tip anywhere from 30-40lbs for dorado and baby tarpon and 80-100lbs for sails and larger tarpon.
Third... In making the leader after the initial twisting of the 20ft of mono it is then divided approximately into thirds. Two thirds is doubled over to form the butt and the balance is left for the mid section where the bite is tied to the tip with the no name knot.
Finally... If you look at the instruction sheet 6 lines from the bottom, you will see the instructions to tie the 4 turn overhand knot at the junction of the 2 strand and 4 strand twist. (tie the knot on the 4 strand section) Pull slightly to set knot, lubricate, wrap the sections around fingers several times and jerk to seat the knot.
Hope this helps you, if not, let me know when you can make it to Kiene's
and I will meet you there and give you a personal session.
Leo

[Darian]

Guess I oughta do something I always advise others to do. Read the d___ text!!!! I got caught up in playing with the samples and glossed over the reading materials. One good thing about all of this is that it seems to have raised the level of awareness/interest in this system....

Incidentally, I discovered, inadvertantly, that four strands may be twisted in the same manner that two can. Not sure, but it looks like that method may produce a slimmer profile....

Gotta go now. More new stuff to try out.

Thanks again Leo,

Darian

[Lee Haskin]

Darian

I appreciate your interest in this leader system. It is a winner! (Thanks Leo!)
You don't fight the memory of the single strand mono, which is a big plus too.

You can customize it for many different situations (i.e. short leader for stripers, longer for tarpon, etc.) You can also vary the length of the butt section too. I guess what I am saying is that since you are making it by hand, you can experiment.
It might be a great leader for big trout streamers too, with lighter test!

John Quigley sent me some mono leaders that were made on a jig, using multiple strands of 4 and 6# test. They are absolutely beautiful. No knots of any kind, with a perfect taper. I am anxious to test them in Mexico next month on tarpon.

Cheers,
Lee

[Darian]

I'm trying to identify the differences (positives/negatives of each) between twisted and furled leader systems. Does anyone know how much time it takes to build/make a furled leader using jig Also, are these jigs custom built or are they available commercially

I've read some references to furled leaders constructed of "...thread...". Are we talking about multi-strand thread (traditional) or thin Monofilament thread

[Lee Haskin]

Hey Darian,

There is a limitation to the size mono you can use with a "jig type" furled leader system. I think 6 lb. may be the largest....so there are several strands, rather than one with a handmade leader, to get the strength.

I will drop John Quigley a note and see if he might jump into this discussion. He makes furled leaders, commercially, with a jig.

Cheers,
Lee

[sculpin]

Leo check your mrssage box. I hope I did it right this time.

Mark

[fishjump]

First off - a big thank you to Leo. Without even knowing me, Leo very quickly responded on my taking him up on his offer, and sent me instructions and samples of his furling system. I hope I can return your kind gesture in the future.

I have studied the instructions and managed to make my own leaders using just surplus leader meterial lying around. However, I am now ready to start making leaders ready for my upcoming trip to Campeche! What leader material are people using? Maxima?

Thanks in advance.

Paul.