Leader Systems....

[Darian]

The prior topic, involving the twisted leaders prepared by Leo Guttierez brought to mind that this subject was discussed in a prior post involving a variety leader styles/systems. (That post was, "Loreto Leaders for Dorado and, etc.", dated 6-7-05).

In that and the latest post Leader systems from as simple as butt/tippet sections to as complicated as twisted butt/tippet leaders were discussed. In the earlier post, Gary Graham, Baja on the Fly, mentioned using a butt section to a 20# test, tapered leader for a class tippet/bite section leader. Gary accomplishes this by reversing the taper and tying a "small bimini" in the tippet end. Then attaching the bimini by loop to loop to the butt section. Simple but effective with no knot between bite/class tippet. I haven't used this system, as yet but it does seem to have potential.

I've used the twisted leaders in practice sessions but not on the water. I can say that this sytem will turn over a large fly, even in the wind, provided that you don't add too much length in your tippet.

In the latest post, there is concern that the actual pound test of the twisted leader may exceed the core strength of the line itself. I've had some questions about this, myself. My initial thoughts are that this leader system is only as strong as it's weakest point (like a chain). In a twisted leader using only a doubled section of material, the loop end is still a single strand. Therefore, if the material is 20# test, the leader will be 20# test. If the twisted section is doubled, I'm not sure what the pound the actual pound test of the leader is. The loop is double stranded. Assuming the knot at the butt end of the twist is a double or triple surgeons, this becomes a very stretchy/strong leader system
that could easily exceed the pound test of the fly line itself.

I guess the question that arises for me is, what is the optimal pound test to use in the construction of a twsited leader My assumption is that most everyone would want the weakest point in your line leader system to be in the leader.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated

[larsj]

I would be interested in a how-to on how to make those furled leaders.. (the ones you can make on the boat!). Sounds like something I should add to my tackle repertoire.

regards, --Lars

[Darian]

Hey Lars,..... The leaders prepared by Leo are constructed using twisted leader material, This twist is accomplished forming an unknotted loop halfway up the leader material by gripping it with the thumb and forefinger of (in my case) the left hand and extending into the palm . The two strands of material must cross over each other inside the grip point and will be left on the outside of the hand so that they will pull thru the grip point at aproximately 90 degrees to each other (like the start of a haywire twist).

The next step is to gasp the loop in the thumb and forefinger of the right hand and rotate/twist the matreial while pulling it thru the original grip point to accomplish twisting. The amount of twisting required will be dictated by the length of the two strands to be twisted.

When the strands are completely twisted, tie a stout loop knot in the end of the leader. I always use a double or triple surgeons loop here. As long as the tension on the twisted section is not released, the material will not un-twist. This is assured by tying the loop knot in the ends.

Hope I didn't make this more complicated than I needed to.

As I understand it, A truly furled leader is much more of a weave than a twist and, as such, is not a twisted leader IMHO.

[Darian]

Bill's guide is titled, "FLY CASTING SYSTEMS". I support Carl's suggestion and have both the guide and CD.

In the guide, Bill's e-mail address is billsknots@aol.com. you can purchase the book, CD or both (as I did). The information obtained is well worth the money.

[Leo]

Hey Darian
I have been trying to post a reply for the past few days without any success until just now. Problem with trying ro remember my password. The tip of the leader where the bite is tied on is 20# and should break right at 20#. It does not, because of the efficiency of the "no name knot". With five turns it is almost like a nail knot and the effect is that the bite is also pulling on the two 20# legs and is some way strenghtened. The leader system has been tested on Kienes knot machine and breaks anywhere between 23 to 27 lbs. This leader system is not designed for IGFA is is just a helping hand for a begining salt water fly fisherman to have a better chance to land a large fish. Hope this helps answer any questions.
Leo

[Jay Murakoshi]

Darian,

I've been using the furled leaders alot lately. It definitly helps turn over the fly. I've sat here trying to construct the furled leaders for the trip this week, actually tomorrow but nothing is working, just like my desktop computer. I hate working off a lap top.

I've been getting my leaders from a guy in Texas but he's out of country right now, so it's back to using straight 20lb leaders

The weather in La Paz has definitly changed. It's around 105 with scattered thunder showers off and on. The winds blow in the morning and afternoons. Some days it's a tough ride to get to the island, even to scout for dorado. More roosters along the beaches right now.

Can't wait to get on that plane. I'll be posting from the hotel or the coffee shop. Got the new Nikon digital coming along on this trip

Jay

[JerryInLodi]

Jay, we've been blown out here in Mulege for the last two days as well. Actually my boat can take it, I cannot. We're going out this afternoon at 4 since it seems the water is lying down and should be down again tomorrow. It's supposed to really kick up some wind and waves on Friday.

You might take a look at

http://www.tempbreak.com/index.php?&cwregion=ml

for ocean surface temperatures. The water here in Mulege has been too hot to swim in at 86-87 degrees. The wind has dropped the temperature dramatically about four degrees and I'm hoping that the Dorado will move back in. Last week it was necessary to go out 25 miles to find fish but once there, there were schools of thousands.

[Darian]

Jay,.... You might want to consider the twisted leader system down there. For quick/efficient preparation, a twisted leader can't be beat. I'm a relative beginner at it and can construct a working Butt section in a little over 15 Minutes. A more complicated butt section takes a little longer and some additional equipment. It sounds like you're really gonna have a good trip. Wish I was going too....

Leo,.... Thanks for the info on breaking points but what is a "no-name knot" Your description makes it sound like an Allbright knot.

[Darian]

Let's bring this one back up to the top and see if we can generate more comments/information.... See, also, the comments by Lee Haskins on furled leaders in his post (7/19).

[Jay Murakoshi]

darian,

I've been using the furled leaders all week. Great for turning over the big flies.

the fishing has been pretty good for some, ok for others. Alot of BIG dorado are breaking off. huge roosters have been seen, hooked and broke off.
I just viewed the weather. It's suppose to be 102 to 104 degrees with isolated thunderstorms tomorrow and friday. Let's see lightning and graphite rods, what a combination

Going to town to have some Rancho Viejo

Jay