Divers

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I am excited to see the enthusiasm for warm water fly fishing.

I actually started fly fishing for small bass and panfish before any other species.

I think with the local surf fly fishing, carp hunting and local Stripers chasing that warm water fly fishing is finally getting it's fair share of popularity now.

We have to have the "battle of the hard body poppers and the hair bugs" now........yahooo.

This is exciting.

[Darian]

Good discussion guys.... Let's see some more.

[Adam Grace]

Great conversation!

I used to spin and clip dear hair for a long time, my flies are what got my foot in the door at Kiene's Fly Shop, Bill liked my spun bass bugs and I got a part time job. I used to love spinning hair. I grew out of that phase because my flies became to time consuming.

The water logging of a fly can sometimes work to your advantage as far as looking more natural (sitting in the water deeper). Unfortunately all deer hair bugs soak up water, the tightness of the packing can siimply slow down the time it takes ( unless you continually dress your bug in floatant). Also the casting of a waterlogged deer bug is a pain in the butt. Deer hair bugs are great but I leave the tying of those up to Umqua and other commercial fly tyers. I only tie with foam anymore, less time consuming and they float and last longer.

Bye the way....... Good thinking outside the box Charlie!

I should have mentioned that you should zap-a-gap the double-weed guard after tying and clipping the fly.

The double weed guard helps me fish deep into cover as well as....and I hate to admit this....protect me from bad casts. I almost never hang up in snags and weed mats with a double weed guard.

Like David and Mike said, you catch more fish if you have confidence in your fly, I totally agree.

I'm enjoying this topic guys, very fun.

[jbird]

In the tens of thousands of flies I've tied over the last 20 years, I have always avoided tying a spun deer hair fly. They have just never fit my catagory of fishing well and they seemed like too much work. Now that I am enjoying the persuit of bass and panfish a little more, my interest is piqued. This thread discussionis very interesting and helpful. Think I'll have to give it a try. There was a great article in flyfishing saltwaters magazine recently on the subject. I'll have to dig that out.

Great looking flies you tied there tho! If they dont float high enough with the loose packing, could you spray them with some scotchguard of fly floatant the night before?

J

[Darian]

Hey guys,.... What hooks (type, model, brand, etc.) are best for use on your divers I've just started using Gammies, B10S.

[mikenewman]

Darian
I had settled on tiemco 8089's but I've also just discovered the Gamakakatsu B10S and think they are excellent for big divers.

Jbird: I tried Scotchguard but found it made my bugs stink for days. Then I tried double applications of Gink but my bugs gave off such an oil slick Greenpeace tried to ram my boat! Now I when I no longer like the way the bug is swimming I change it for a fresh one and let it dry out.

[Chris V]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it.

Adam- I'm assuming with your double weed guard, you still tie on the mono to the back of the hook as your first step- correct

I did go by the shop and got myself a hair packer- I tied these by just forcing the hari back with my fingers- sounds like I need to do some expiramenting on the water to find out what works for me.

Jbird- I'm with you...I haven't tied quite as many flies as you have, but up 'till now I haven't tied any top water bass bugs at all. It is pretty fun to get into a new thing

Darian- the hooks these bugs were tied on are TMC 8089 size 2.

[Richard]

I also tie my divers on a Tiempco 8089 - size 2. I find that anything smaller tends to get swallowed and endangers the fish. In addition it seems to avoid hooking the smaller fish, at least a little.

I tie using a lot of different kind of hair, deer belly, deer body, elk and antelope. My primary concern is the length of the hair. Short hair is just a pain! I also use a lot of contrast in the hair rings. White and black for example. For the collar on I use light colors, white, bright green, chartreuse, yellow. This is for MY visibility. I don't think it matters much to the fish at all!! I suspect, but I can't prove that contrast matters, but not color. I think that the noise and movement is more critical than color. As a side note I tie the fly on coming from the bottom of the eye so that when I strip in line it pulls the fly down. I do think this makes at least a little difference.

I much prefer a very tight fly. You can fish it a lot longer and through several fish. In my experience loosely tied flies sometimes don't last through the second or third fish. But others may have had a different experience. On this note I have tried al kinds of ways to pack the fly. Mostly I have gone back to using my fingers. But I just started a new procedure and it seems to work. I am using a crimper that I bought at a saltwater tackle store for $3. WOW!! Does it ever pack them tight. If you can pick up a cheap crimper try it and see if your experience matches mine.

I prefer hackle tails over other types and I use a single loop weed guard. I also like to use a fair (a lot? ) of flash. On the other hand I have had good luck with other "formulations" so experimentation is the word of the day. No two of my bugs look the same. I usually only need one or two a day when fishing so I can tie a lot more than I use, so I tend to play around and experiment as I don't need a lot of a single type. Although they are almost all variations on the Dahlberg Diver.

I'll put on an example a little later for those of you who want a really good laugh.

[Adam Grace]

The Tiemco 8089 hook is also my choice for a bass bug hook, it's always done the job for me, no need for me to look for another hook.

[Hairstacker]

I also use the size 2 Tiemco 8089, ha.

Although this is a thread specifically addressing Dahlberg Divers, my comments regarding my preference of a so-so packed head relate to my preference for tying and fishing the Tap's Bug, a deerhair popper:



As you can see, this fly has a rather sparse tail compared to a Diver, which enables me to cast it with a 5 wt. rod. The tai is also light from the standpoint of acting like a keel, so it will skip across the surface a lot if tied very tightly.

Since the Diver has a fairly heavy keel with all those feathers and, in some cases marabou or a rabbit strip, as well as a ragged collar which may absorb water, perhaps a tighter head serves to balance this keel better. So perhaps, it all also depends on the type of fly involved.