Glue Question?

[Chris V]

Hi All,

I've been reading the board for a while, but finally decided to chime in.

My question is on glues... specifically- what types of glues to you use when finishing small flies?

I've watched several professional tyers use what seems to be much thinner glue than I am using. I have tried both Dave's Flexament and Hard Head. However, when finishing small flies- both of these glues seem too thick.

Should I be thinning the glue significantly? Is there another type I should try?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[Darian]

Hi Chris,..... Welcome to Kiene's BB community.... Good question concerning adhesives. I tend to use Dave's Flexament for freshwater patterns (large/small). It can be thinned easily and penetrates the tying materials well.... Once thinned, it can be dropped from a bodkin onto the head. Take a piece of monofilament and clear the eye with it to finish the fly....

Having said that, I have a DVD of Craig Matthews and his guides, Blue Ribbon Flies, tying small caddis/mayfly/stone fly patterns (down to size #20 ) and they do not use adhesive at all on the smaller patterns nor do they discuss the use of same. All of which leads me to think that they probably figure a small fly will be destroyed by fish/slime over the coarse of a day so it really isn't necessary to cement them.

Of course, there's always crazy glue or the old standby of thinned varnish

I use Flexament and Zap A Gap or Crazy Glue for everything but the head on all salt water patterns and Epoxy for those (heads).... Softex is great for creating certain types of flies, as well....

[Hairstacker]

Well, to finish off heads I use Sally Hansen's clear nail polish. Has worked well enough on flies ranging from about a size 1/0 down to at least size 20.

[StevenOjai]

Hi Chris

I tend to agree with Darian. I find that I usually do not apply any head cement on flies smaller than 18. I like to use Sally's Hard as Nails for a head cement. To anchor hair or thread wraps, I'll use Super Glue.
My problem with Dave's Flexment is that it tends to thicken quickly over time. I've been told to use Tuoluene as a thinner but the closest I can find the stuff is in Lacquer thinner and it really dosen't do a great job.

Some tiers stay totally away from using any head cement since they feel that, even if you clean the eye, enough residue remains to effect the surface of the tippet material. Something soft like Dave's Flexament would not seem to pose a problem like this to me.

Steve

[Adam Grace]

Chris,

For small flies, #18-24,my favorite is Griff's Thin cement.

For medium to larger sized trout flies, #8-16, I LOVE Griff's thick cement. Very easy to apply one medium sized drop at a time with the use of a bodkin or needle. Just the right consistancy so that it doesn't drop off the bodkin too quickly. I higly recomend it. I used to use Umpqua's Flex-O-ment but it dried and thickened up way too fast in my opinion. It is also just a little too thick in consistancy fresh from the jar.

Squeeze bottle applicators can plug up and are too much of a hassle in my opinion.

For large streamers the brushed on cements are great, although they're hard to control while applying the cement to the heads of small trout flies. For streamers and other larger flies the burshed on cements are pretty convenient. "Harder than Hull" is nice, but for my striper streamers I use Sally Hansens "Hard As Nails" with nylon, found in drug stores like Longs. The brush and quick drying nature is great for large streamers. Hard as Nails is a great head finisher!

I don't use zap-a-gap as much as I used to. I hate how it gets all white and discolored as a head cement. I will use the zap to permanently bond parts of flies that get the most beat up by fish, like striper flies, but never as a head finisher.

Sorry that I went on so much but I just wanted to convey my humble opinions clearly.

[Darian]

Hey guys,.... I've used the thinner put out by Umpqua to thin Flexament with some success. Anybody tried acetone for a thinner It sure works on a bunch of other glues including Sally Hansen's....

[Adam Grace]

I've used the thinner and with the correct amount it can work well. I never really got the ratio mixture just right myself. I got tired of having to thin out the cement that much, but Flexoment is a very popular cement. It was Kiene's most popular head cement.

I'm just not it's biggest fan.

[Terry Thomas]

Here's a second for Griff's thin cement. I never use cement on flies smaller than #16. Griff's provides good penetrating action. A second application with Hard As Hull works quite well for me on larger flies.

[Chris V]

Thanks for all the replies guys...sounds like there are some other products out there that I should try. I'll pick up both Griff's thin cement and Sallly's "Hard as Nails" and try them both.

Regarding the Flexament- I've tried the Umpqua thinner myself also, but have found it hard to get the consistency right - same as you Adam. Also, as Steven pointed out- when you use the Flexament alot it tends to dry out fairly quickly & you have to use more thinner. Perhaps I should try Tuoluene or acetone as a thinner until my bottle runs out? I imagine I could get pick up acetone at a local hardware store...anyone know where to get Tuoluene

Thanks again for all the responses- this is exactly what I needed. Great board! :

[Darian]

Question: do any of you use Hard As Nails to coat a 5 minute epoxy head to keep it from yellowing.... Is that an urban legend or does it work