Adults and Half Pounders Question

[BigBuddha]

Hey PM I had success with a floating line, and bead head birdsnest nymphs, and bead head prince nymphs. I had to add some weight where I was fishing, but I suppose this will change with the riffle or run you fish. Good luck.

[David Lee]

Patrick - Don't hold me to this .... but I think the river will be low enough to fish this weekend . Bring a big (8 wt,) rod and sinking line , the fish are still eating the same stuff as last time BUT - Stripe is there !! Lemmy know if you're coming up . David

[PatrickM]

Thanks for the tip, Buddha. I'm heading up there with a couple of buddies this weekend. I'll let you know how we do.
David, it'll be a couple of weeks before I can get up your way again. I'll give you a shout when I'm thinking of coming up there. When are we going to see some pics of the striped beast from you?

[BigBuddha]

Hey PM did you make it to the Feather this weekend? I fished it Saturday. I landed one 14 incher on a prince nymph, but it was windy. I actually ended up trying to cast a shooting head and swinging a Silver Hilton. To my surprise I hooked into a big one. I had it on for awhile, but my 5 wt. Sage XP couldn't do much with this thing. A lot of head shaking and a big run, the hook was thrown. I guess there might be an adult or two still left.

[ycflyfisher]

Ryan,

I can't really agree with your statement that American River pounders are not anadramous. Due to the time constraints of a half-pounder migration they probably don't venture much outside the bay, but they do more than likely hit the salt. I don't know for a fact, but I think it's unlikely any of those fish are utilizing a survival strategy that involves a prolonged stay in the delta because of thermal issues in the summer and an unfavorable delta forage base (for trout less than 12" long) vs. high predation rate by delta predators ratio.

For anglers, the term "half-pounder" seems to represent some kind of arbitrary size of the fish. It's actually a very distinct life-history component. "What do you classify as a half pounder?" Ask a dozen anglers, you'll probably get up to a half dozen different answers. Ask a dozen biologists, the answer will probably be pretty consistant.The half-pounder component is described in the scientific literature as a sexually immature fish that will not spawn that returns to freshwater(not neccessarily it's natal stream.) on what's termed a false migration. The pounder will typically spend 2-4 months in the salt before returning to freshwater. The pounder component is more largely associated with early entry(i.e. fall run) stream maturing fish, as opposed to later entering, ocean maturing fish. The American has a noticable pounder component because it is found in the Van Arsdale/Eel River strain, that was originally used to seed the hatchery. Outmigration for pounders has been observed to occur as early as Nov, but generally occurs the spring after re-entry to fresh water.

Due to the adaptive nature of steelhead, it is now my opinion that the pounder component is probably present to at least some degree(mainly very small degree) anywhere there are wild steelhead. A biologist who probably forgets more about the fish in a day than I'll ever learn in my lifetime, has stated that he's seen pounders in virtually every watershed he's ever worked in. There is no general concensus among the scientific types as to why this component occurs at all, or what if at all, advantage it affords to the fish. IMHO, in the watersheds where 95+% of the fish(Klamath) are exhibiting this lifehistory, it's got to give them some advantage or they wouldn't be doing it to the degree that they are. I'm guessing it's a trade-off advantage( i.e. the pounders reap more abundance for the entire population at first spawning via lower predation by returning to freshwater than staying in the salt for a full season, at the cost of smaller size ar spawning.) That's the theory of a USFS biologist and is the one that I've heard that makes the most sense to me. Just because we don't understand why, the pounder component exists doesn't mean it's not important.

I personally don't feel that any of the CV watesheds with the exception of the American, has a pounder component to any appreciable(i.e. fishable degree. Why? The Study(from scale analysis) that was conducted by Jones and Stokes on the Yuba steelhead a few years ago showed no pounder component in any of the steelhead that were captured. The Feather? Can you say "residualized hatchery disasters that elected not to outmigrate"? You can predict the strength of what anglers conclude is a "pounder run" on the Feather by the large presence(or absence) in small fin clippers in the winter/spring. If a good deal of the fish residualize and elect not to outmigrate, then they grow to approximately pounder size by the following fall. This is a hatchery management (or mismanagement) issue, not the presence of a fishable legit pounder run.


Feather river steelhead do hit the salt, and this has been confirmed via scale analysis. Feather river steelhead are smaller than their winter run counterparts on the American, due to the predominant life-histories of the fish. The Feather fish are predominantly one salt fish in about the 17-22" size range. The fish on the American has a greater multisalt component than the Feather and thus in general, produces larger fish. More seasons in the salt= bigger fish. Angler's seem to call fish in the 17-20" range a pounder on the Feather, when in reality, those fish are capable of spawning and should really be considered mature 1 salt steelhead.

On the Yuba, by scientific accounts, does not really have a viable steelhead population. It does have some steelhead, but not many. IMHO, 95+% of the fish that are caught by anglers and are reported to be pounders are actually just resident jobbers. It's hard to argue with the numbers from the JSA study. Not only are there not a lot of pounders, there's just not a lot of steelhead on the Yuba. In the late 1970's the DFG actually attempted to make anadromy a viable survival strategy for the fish on the Yuba by transplanting stock from the Coleman Hatchery, which they felt would continue to utilize an anadramous survival strategy. By the JSA numbers it didn't work. The current state of conditions on the lower Yuba offer year round thermal refugia, lots of availible quality spawning substrate via the mining tailings that replenish the rivers gravel via sediment transport, a large biomass of aquatic inverebrates that features a readily availible food supply year round, a massive amount of protein in the drift via the mechanisms of the Chinook spawn and subsequent allevin hatch in the fall and winter, controlled winter flows, etc, etc, etc. In a nutshell, the changes incurred by the "progress of humanity" in the Yuba made it more fish freindly than it was in in it's natural state. The wild steelhead adapted to the changes of man by electing to not outmigrate. Adamdromy in the Yuba simply became a less effective, unneeded survival strategy.

The inherent need to outmigrate is thought to have originated because steelhead/salmon rivers in general are fairly sterlie watersheds, that usually feature seasonal conditions that can generally be described as hostile to supporting large populations of large fish. The trade off in outmigration is:
1- a smaller percentage of the fish will survive to spawning.
2- The fish that do survive will be larger and you'll get more recruitement of future stock from each spawning fish.

Here's a link to another discussion that talks about relative size of steelhead that's watershed dependant:

http://www.ncffb.org/~gmiller/ncffb/...gi?read=218875


Willie

[Jasonh]

Here's my 2 cents worth. I have caught many half pounders in both the american and yuba rivers. I would have to say that about 80% of the fish on the american seem to be wild fish as well. The reason i say i have caught some on teh yuba is because i have seen sea lice still on the fish and therefore indicates that they have recently been in the ocean. I was told that these fish can make teh trip from teh ocean to the yuba or american with in about 48 hours. I would have to say that most of these fish in the 14-22" range are at least one salt fish and i would say hang out in the rivers and feed for quite some time during the year. I have caught a few 22" plus fish in the american throughout the summer. To me the whole half pounder and steelhead migrations are a big question mark and i would really like to know what they realy do. I have head fish and game doing research on the yuba over the last year to determine what those fish do, hopefully they will do the same on the american some day.

Jason

[Darian]

Hey yc,.... Thanks for entering this thread . I recalled some of your comments related to this in a previous thread I partcipated in and felt your knowledge was needed for clarification, here....

[PatrickM]

I promised a report to Buddha, so here it is:
Got up to the Feather about mid-afternoon on Sunday, just as the rain was starting. Fished the low flow with a buddy of mine for an hour and a half until it starting getting really nasty. We nymphed through a few nice riffles and drop offs and ended up with one sucker fish to show for it. We drifted the Lower Sac on Monday with another friend who has a boat. Not many bugs coming off, and fishing was a bit slow, but we still landed a few nice ones. Prince nymphs were the only thing we could get a bite on. Very fun couple of days. Drifting a river with two friends is about the best way you can spend a Monday, IMHO.
That's it.

[steve sullivan]

I promised a report to Buddha, so here it is:
Got up to the Feather about mid-afternoon on Sunday, just as the rain was starting. Fished the low flow with a buddy of mine for an hour and a half until it starting getting really nasty. We nymphed through a few nice riffles and drop offs and ended up with one sucker fish to show for it. We drifted the Lower Sac on Monday with another friend who has a boat. Not many bugs coming off, and fishing was a bit slow, but we still landed a few nice ones. Prince nymphs were the only thing we could get a bite on. Very fun couple of days. Drifting a river with two friends is about the best way you can spend a Monday, IMHO.
That's it.

Hi Buddha, I fish the feather about 3 times a week. I have found it "fair" but have been managing to catch 1-2 steelhead, from 17 -22 inches with one 26 inch totally silver hatchery steelhead (fought like c**p, I didnt expect that from a 26 inch total silver steelhead, was using 6 pound tippet, and it never came close to taking me into my backing).

I have taken some stomach samples from some of the hatchery fish, and one fish had about 30 green caddis larva (forked tail, 2 prominent pairs of arms coming off the black part of the upper part, couldnt see a antanea, legs were so small as to probably not be keyed on by fish) and about 5 sucker eggs. Yesterdays stomach sample found a more even distribution between caddis larva (maybe some were caddis pupae?). I have had more success with a caddis larvae than caddis pupae (my larvae has a forked tail, no legs, two sets of small arms (black rubber or pheasant tail or mallard and a black thread head that is smaller than the body).

A prince has been about the second most popular fly for me behind caddis pupae/larva. If I were you I would use a sucker egg imatation with a caddis larva dropper. If you want to test my theory about larva you are allowed to use three flys, so throw on a fox poopah as well. The fish on the feather are starting to really key in on sucker eggs. The eggs are really small, maybe 1.5 times bigger than a 1/8 inch bead, and I cant figure out the color. I am going to just use clear glue. If you can find really small yellow beads that might work too.

[steve sullivan]

What is the deal for the Feather? The steelhead average... in my experience... anywhere from 18-22". With the occasional 8-10 pounder hooked and ocasionally caught a couple times each season. And that is during Ocotber/November/December... I have noticed that in the spring, there are alot of fish caught that are in the 18-22" range, but there are even more smaller 12-16" fish in the river... I know those ones have never seen salt or any water other than the Feather. So what my question is... does anyone think that the average 18-22" steelhead on the Feather made it out to the salt, or do you think they chilled in the Delta like the American HP's? So basically, what does everyone consider a HP and an adult on the Feather?

.

Hi Ryan, one thing you have to realize is that I talked to the people at the hatchery a couple of days ago, and the feather has a BIG problem with parasites. The hatchery has tried to plant other strains of steelhead, in one instance they planted 1000 steelhead and all 1000 steelhead died from the parasite. I cant answer your question about if a 18-22 inch steelhead has tasted salt versus just the delta, but I can emphatically state that I have caught 17 - 22 inch steelhead that are adults, as I have caught 17 -18 inch fish that have been been ready to drop their eggs.