Take me to your LEADERS !!

[David Lee]

Hi guys (that's right ! guys , not girls .... I don't think we have any girls on here yet .... ) !
Leaders are not talked about often - I don't know why . Leaders are good things (ever try to tie a #14 Birdnest to your flyline without one ?) and a good leader design can make or break your day . So , here are the questions ...
Knotted or knotless ??
Length for specific applications ??
If you tye your own , what formula ??
Any strange stuff in it (shock-gum , colored sections , multi-strands ...) ??
My favorite multi-purpose (5-7 wt) is - 3 feet 20 lb. , 2 feet 15 lb. , 1 foot 12 lb. , 1 foot 10 lb. ..... surgeons loops in each end , all tyed w/ double surgeons knots . I use Maxima ultra-green for the leader and Seagaur blue label Fluro for the tippet (6-10 lb.) .
For sinking lines , 3 feet 25 lb. , 1 foot 15 lb. , plus a tippet .
I also have some Furled leader butts from my friend Rod Harrison in Australia - his "Knotted-Dog" 9/10 butt could turn over one of my housecats on a 10 wt. rod . Good for BIG Striper flies !! David

[Joseph]

I am a devout fan of furled leaders. I make mine out of fly tying thread for dry fly presentation. I've tried making them out of monofilament but they aren't as flexable as those made of thread. Nothing turns a dry over like a thread furled leader.

So I could honestly evaluate one for durability - I have used the same furled leader for 3 seasons to see if it would wear out and start to fray. No signs of wear yet - it will be interesting to see if that leader will last through season 4.

If it doesn't I will have to pull out the jig and make some more. I end up giving all of them away and. Whenever someone asks me about my leader I reach into my vest and hand them one and tell them to try it for themselves. My stash dwindles rapidly but it doesn't matter - I can build a new one every 3 years...

Joseph

[Hairstacker]

A leader for 3 seasons? Are you serious? I had no idea. Sure would like to hear more about these things, like how they're constructed.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

One thing that is new for us in tropical salt water leaders is the 'twisted" leader system that our friend Leo Gutterres of Stockton has been working on for about 5 years now.

One big plus for me is that with the stiff mono core lines that we use for the tropics we have to put a braided mono loops on instead of a needle nail knot. The twisted leader hs a loop at the top end with no knots making this a very smooth connection.

The leader also turns over and has more stretch so it is good for big violent fish on a fly rod.

Much of our staff have been working with the twisted leader which we use mostly in the warm tropical fishing situations.

[SullyTM]

David...Bear with me. If I understand your leader philosophy you are foregoing the off the rack leaders and constructing your own. Correct? Is it your contention that "shorter" leaders are better suited for the American? Do you apply this short leader technique, or do you use the more conventional leaders? How long are your tippets? Do you have a formula for them based on leader length? As always, Share What You Know, Learn What You Don't. thank you.

[David Lee]

Hi SullyTM , I never use knotless leaders , why buy when you can tye ?? With a floating line , never shorter than 7 feet in lakes and more like 9 to 12 feet . Sinking lines (I use them the most ...) 4 to 7 feet (3 feet of butt , 2 feet of tippet gets the most use for swinging ) .
The American is super clear ... longer is almost always better , for me , anyways . Knotless have their place (heavy weeds , timber) but I just like the way home made ones cast better .
Some people get more Striper bites with a LONG (10 to 14 foot !!) leader on a sinking line . I use a 7 or 8 footer for them and get bit o.k. . David

[Darian]

Think I might've gone thru every stage of leader selection/construction and/or use except for furled leaders.... The only one that really fsacinates me is the recent discovery (on my part) of the twisted leader that Bill mentione in his post. Basically, I believe that anything that can be done simply (rather than complex) is good. So, for me, I will not build a leader if I can buy one that'll do the same job.

The lone exception to this is the twisted leader. I believe this method has a great deal of potential and is not difficult to construct. Loops are already built into the contsruction process. Its main appliocation appears to be as a butt section(s) but Bill/Adam are far more knowledgable in this area than I.....

I intend to use these leader butts in all saltwater applications and for salmon/stripers. I'll have to see if I need to use one on other type fish (Bluegill )

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Years ago (~1960) when I started fly fishing they had one mono tapered leader by Berkely Company. They were in a red plastic package for a dollar and somehting? I was working at a sporting goods store part time then, Arden Sports Unlimited.

The standard trout leader setup was to nail knot on a stiff ~18" butt section of Mason monofilament that was about 2/3 the diameter of the tip of your fly line. Then we used a Berkely knotless tapered mono leader. I think we used mostly the 9' model. Then for tippet there was this stuff from France imported by the Gladding Line Company. It was Gladding "Gladell". It was in nice little different colored (for size)plastic spools.

Many did tie there own leaders or highly modify the factory tapered knotless ones in those days.

Today, most use factory knotless tapered leaders especially for trout fishing. We usually tie many of our own leades for stripers and salt water. You can tie all your own leaders and it is very interesting. After really learning how to build leaders, you can quickly modify any leader to better suite the daily fishing conditions.

[Adam Grace]

I like tapered leaders. With everything else to conentrate on in fly fishing I like my leaders as simple as possible.

I think that it takes a lot of time to tie and build you own leader. I have a fear of using knotted leqaders and having one of the many knots failing on me.

Plus I'm lazy

[Joseph]

A leader for 3 seasons? Are you serious? I had no idea. Sure would like to hear more about these things, like how they're constructed.

Their construction is quite simple once you have a good setup jig. Its kind of complicated to explain so I'll simplify it: I have an 1x6 board 8 feet long with 2 rows of nails spaced according to a formula down the board. If the board is laying flat the nails are sticking up like you were going to be nailing it on your house as trim.

I then take a fly tying bobbin with 6/0 or 8/0 fly tying thread and starting from the top nail I make 8 loops around nail 1 and 2. Then I make 5 loops around nails 2 and 3. Then I make 3 loops around 3 and 4. Nails 5, 6 and 7 go back up the board on the right side. From 4 to 5 I make 2 loops, 5 to 6 I use 4 loops and 6 to 7 I make 6 loops. Then I pull the loops off the nails and end up with a large link thread chain. Each of the loops form the links.

With one end of the chain still attached to nail 1, I attach the other end to a hook made from a paper clip thats chucked into a cordless drill. Keeping tension on the thread chain I start spinning the thread with the drill clockwise. As the thread winds it starts getting shorter. When the thread chain has shortened about 10% (12"-16") I stop the drill. You then bring the end that was on the drill back up to the other end keeping tension by having someone hold the center of the wrapped thread. Once the 2 ends are back together you hand a weight from the center and let the whole thing unwrap. This weaves all the threads together and you end up with a leader. You have to see it and then it will all make sense. I'll mail you one if you are interested.

Joseph