I just don't understand

[David Lee]

Mexico = safety issues stemming from cartels?

Not in Baja or Baja Sur . I've been going down since 2005 , sometimes several times a year . Never any cartel-related issues . They are there , they are busy w/ other things .... not tourists . Most who encounter problems are doing ..... unwise things - looking for dope , hitting the cathouse , being drunk in public , etc. . Look for problems , and you will likely find problems .

BTW - my 4 1/2 year old Daughter does the trip with us , and has ever since she was 5 Months old . I wouldn't take her down unless I thought it as safe/safer than the U.S. .

D.~

[Tony Buzolich]

I started going to Loreto WAY back when. At least the early ninties. I booked with Fly Fishing Specialties when Stan Hellickson was running the place. It was always the same group of guys from the Sacramento area. We stayed at La Pinta (I think) right on the beach close to the marina.

Every morning we'd walk over to the marina, find our pangero, and wait for the sun to come up and get our bait for the day. Then it was off, sometimes north, sometimes south, but we always found fish. Dorado were always at the top of the list and there were tons of them.
One day we had so many we had to sit down and take a break as the dorado continued to swim around the boat. What a sight it was to see two guys sitting giggling and pointing at all the fish next to the boat. We had been throwing poppers and one of mine was hanging over the gunnel of the boat just barely touching the water. Suddenly a big splash goes off and my rod flies out of the boat. There it goes skipping across the surface like a water-skier with a dorado pulling it like a speed-boat.

Long story short, I lost an 11 wt.SAGE and an ABEL BG#3. All we could do was laugh or cry, and get the spare rod out
Tony

[Carl Blackledge]

Troutsource, or whatever your name is, you are completely wrong and ill informed. Loreto where I fish is 100% safe and the local people will bend over backwards to help you with anything, Don't talk about stuff you know nothing about.

Carl Blackledge

[Carl Blackledge]

David, Thanks for your input, anybody who talks about the Cartels in Mexico shows they haven't ever been in Baja

Carl Blackledge

[Carl Blackledge]

Tony,

I have lost two Sage rods over the side in the past 22 years in Loreto, I just lost a rod and my guide said i can see your line, so he jumped in and came up with my fly line still hooked to a mad Dorado, The guide earned an extra $100 that day, i think we laughed all day reliving that adventure---lots of good times for pennies

Carl Blackledge

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Salt fishing is a different monster I'm no expert on, but if you've ever been steelheading, your mindset really isn't equipped for it.

Those who fly fish Stripers in the Delta out of a boat should do well in Loreto.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I think Baja, Mexico is safer than most other parts of Mexico because of it's remoteness and low population numbers.

[David Lee]

I think Baja, Mexico is safer than most other parts of Mexico because of it's remoteness and low population numbers.

Make no mistake - the cartels are well entrenched in Baja and Baja Sur . They have diversified , and are in most of the larger towns and cities .... doing what criminals do (getting their Fingers into anything and everything they can to fleece the locals of $$$) . What they DON'T do is hassle tourists . Most cartel shootings are targeted at rival factions , so unless you have the bad luck to be near them when there's an issue .... you probably won't be involved with them .

The most common problem are Police , who will pull you over for any reason/no reason at all , and demand a bribe . Always ask for a ticket , and refuse to offer/pay mordida - always go to the Police station . Driving in Baja will kill you long before the criminals will !

As for the subject that Carl broached .... I guess people go where they go and spend what they spend is because they want to . I know guys who Love the Umpqua , or the Skeena system , and travel to these spots every year , good season or crap season . The old bit about 'Fishin' ain't always about fishin' ' is pretty much true . As a long time Baja veteran , I've found what I always searched for - solitude , millions of different Fishes , and stupidly low cost . The trade off ? I am limited by the Tides , as far as my time on the water , I have to camp , so no hot shower and dinner already fixed when I come in cold and wet . We get whatever supplies are available , and go without some things because they just are not there , and we are always at the mercy of the weather (destroyed 7 Tents in 5 trips !!) . The biggest issue for us is time - we budget at least 3 weeks for a trip (have done a total of 3 Months before) , lots of driving involved , and you must pay attention to the logistics .

I often used to find myself with the same thought as Carl posted - I'd be in the middle of releasing Fish #75 .... or Fish # 154 for the day , and think "I wonder how the Steelheaders did on the American today?" . Bottom line is - it doesn't matter . They didn't drive 2,000 miles , they have food options , they have civilization 5 minutes away . Do what you like , and do what you can do , and have fun !!

D.~

[gitt]

We were south of Cancun in November. There were reports of shoot outs in Playa de Carmen before our trip. A couple of tourists were caught up in the cross fire between rival drug cartels. This was a late night issue on the beach where tourists tried to score drugs. Before we departed, Los Morelos had rival drug cartels shooting it out on the beach. It is a territorial thing for the drug dealers. On our last day, a truck load of Federales armed with automatic weapons entered our resort. I had read that the 1400-1500 Federales were ordered into the area as a show of force and bring a sense of calm to the tourists. We had rented a car and were headed south on the highway between the airport and our resort at night. The traffic opened up and I wasn't paying attention to my speed as it crept up past the posted limit. I could see a vehicle gaining on me in my rear view mirror so I tried to move over to let him pass. Halfway through my lane change the vehicle passed me on the right as if I was standing still. I corrected my lane change and pulled back to the left as a local cop over came me. We continued on for less than a half mile before we saw he had gained on his target and pulled them over. The targeted driver was only four to five cars in front of us. Talk about pucker power whilst driving.

In comparison, I have never felt intimidated driving nor walking around while in Baja. The area around the Marina in Loreto caters to gringos. If you walk into the town of Loreto at night, the town's people (families and young adults) are out in the cool of the evening. There is lots of traffic for its size and if you hang out long enough, you might encounter a truck load of police or federales mixed in the traffic. I think it is a presence that is welcomed. I recall walking around town looking for a pair of ostrich boots. We found a pair that fit and the price was fair, so we bought them. The clerk made a mistake and gave me change that benefitted me by twenty dollars. She looked like she was in an abusive relationship due to her swollen lip, black and blue eye and stitches on her eye brow. I imagined her mistake with the change would only add to the physical abuse, so I corrected her by returning the extra twenty.

When you visit these towns, you are contributing to the local economy. There is no target on you unless you decide to wear it. Drink to excess, get loud and wear your distain for the locals, you are only inviting repriocity. The locals already know that you are not from there. Don't increase your odds as a target as an ugly American. Lastly, respect goes a long way.

[David Lee]

When you visit these towns, you are contributing to the local economy. There is no target on you unless you decide to wear it. Drink to excess, get loud and wear you distain for the locals, you are only inviting repriocity. The locals already know that you are not from there. Don't increase your odds as a target as an ugly American. Lastly, respect goes a long way.

Well said !

D.~