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Thread: Sierra Lakes Trout Info Request

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    847

    Default Sierra Lakes Trout Info Request

    After spending the last couple of decades traveling far and wide in the US and the world to catch trout and other fish, I've been staying closer to home the last couple years during the pandemic, and I'm inclined to continue that trend. Problem is things have changed a lot in my old stomping grounds in the Sierra Nevada. I've been to a few barren lakes that used to hold fish. Does anyone know of a reasonably up to date source on the status of fish distribution in high mountain lakes in the Sierra...Desolation, Carson-Iceberg, Emigrant Wilderness and beyond?

    While I treasure my 1991 edition of Sierra Trout Guide (signed by Ralph Cutter), I'd like some info less than 30 years old. Not looking for your secret spots (unless you want to PM them), just reliable and available information from DFG, USFS, etc.

    Thanks in advance for any help.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    the Lost Sierra
    Posts
    750

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    About 8 years ago I set out to revise the Sierra trout distribution tables. The Region II biologist (the area you are referencing) refused to supply me with data. I went to the top and finally received some information but it was 10-20 years old and seeded with information completely off the charts. As an example, one of the more well known brook trout lakes in Region II (Bullpen) was listed as fishless. I had great cooperation from the other regions as well as Yosemite National Park. I did have to file two FOIAS to get anything out of Sequoia Kings Canyon National Parks, but finally prevailed.

    When researching the first three editions of Sierra Trout Guide, I encountered nothing but overwhelming support from everyone. I even got an unsolicited phone call from the director asking if he could help. It was always an ego bump to see Trout Guide in biologists' and wardens trucks' as a reference guide. Now, DFW has become very compartmentalized and moral is rock bottom. (Many) people now jealously guard their little pool of information as if they weren't working for the public, and raising a finger to do anything outside of their pay grade is met with rolling eyeballs. I have since retired and the ball is there for someone else to kick down the halls of what's left of our State agencies.
    Last edited by Ralph; 07-16-2021 at 04:32 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Petaluma
    Posts
    157

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    Yes, I encountered the yellow legged frog wall years ago while searching for real California gold in the High Sierra. Instead of being supplied with a list of which lakes had been denuded of trout in order to restore yellow legged frog habitat (which I support) I was required to call the region biologist and go lake by lake to ask if it still had fish. I could not be trusted not to fire bomb the lakes restored for frogs with trout. I felt like a reprimanded 5th grader asking for permission. A real buzz kill.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    the Lost Sierra
    Posts
    750

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve S View Post
    Yes, I encountered the yellow legged frog wall years ago while searching for real California gold in the High Sierra. Instead of being supplied with a list of which lakes had been denuded of trout in order to restore yellow legged frog habitat (which I support) I was required to call the region biologist and go lake by lake to ask if it still had fish. I could not be trusted not to fire bomb the lakes restored for frogs with trout. I felt like a reprimanded 5th grader asking for permission. A real buzz kill.
    Steve- I actively worked with the State, the Feds and the Sierra Nevada Aquatic Research Lab (SNARL) educating the public about MYLF management. I made a film that played in a loop all day, every day at the California Academy of Sciences, filmed for National Geographic and the Outdoor channel. I provided hundreds of images and loads of video for public outreach - including for California Fish and Wildlife. I published magazine articles on frog management and included a chapter in Fish Food. Despite working on the ground and collaborating with fish and frog management teams, a few select members of DFW (who ironically never did frog work) stonewalled my efforts to create a comprehensive fish distribution data set. Bureaucrats on a power trip and without a whiff of common sense.
    Last edited by Ralph; 07-17-2021 at 07:48 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Guerneville
    Posts
    290

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    Ive found many of my lakes with the aid of Ralph’s book, in fact my dads old copy of it, and then going lake to lake, some were fishless but many either had originally listed species or different ones that replaced them. I wondered if a new edition would ever come out, so it’s interesting, and unfortunate to hear insight into why not. Woodman, the CA DFG backcountry trout distribution guide pdf could be of help to you: https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...rdb5410679.pdf
    I believe its only the eastside though.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Highlands, Ca.
    Posts
    2,220

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcolin View Post
    Ive found many of my lakes with the aid of Ralph’s book, in fact my dads old copy of it, and then going lake to lake,
    I used my old copy like that for years. In it's day it was invaluable. It had a permanent spot in my all of my vehicles over the years, along with a Delorme map book.
    After I retired it I sent it to Ralph and he graciously autographed it for me.

    Don't know what's wrong with DFW now, we are paying way more for way less opportunities. Take a look at what a hunting license costs for some sticker shock.
    Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

    Jake: Hit it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    SJC
    Posts
    68

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    I don't know of any 100% complete and accurate source. The Eastern Sierra guide posted above is pretty helpful. I also use flyfishthesierra dot com, but realize that the author has probably not visited every destination listed, and very likely gleaned a lot of that info from others' trip reports. The DFG also has an interactive "fishing guide" map with some info, including places they recently planted, and "historical" info. You can also just search google for trip reports.

    I was a hiker and backpacker long before I started fishing, and as I understand it, most of the lakes in the Sierra above 6000' were originally fishless, so I guess I don't feel much entitlement to be able to catch fish in every lake. The way I plan trips these days I just try first for a good adventure, and good fishing second. YMMV

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    847

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcolin View Post
    Ive found many of my lakes with the aid of Ralph’s book, in fact my dads old copy of it, and then going lake to lake, some were fishless but many either had originally listed species or different ones that replaced them. I wondered if a new edition would ever come out, so it’s interesting, and unfortunate to hear insight into why not. Woodman, the CA DFG backcountry trout distribution guide pdf could be of help to you: https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...rdb5410679.pdf
    I believe its only the eastside though.
    That document is useful and well presented. There are some lakes I've been to that are incorrect in that, but I'm more concerned about which lakes have become fishless, species errors don't really matter much to me. I couldn't find any reference to when it was published. Anybody know.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Petaluma
    Posts
    157

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    Yep, I've run into similar roadblocks trying to obtain hatchery return and steelhead card data.
    How hard or expensive can it be to collect electronically submitted data via a website and make the raw data available to the public at this day and age? It is baffling, frustrating and demoralizing.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    alameda
    Posts
    448

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    Maybe this org chart would help to direct your questions?
    https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.a...D=35774&inline

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