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Thread: Casting question

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    I have tried other rod line combinations, and it has happened before but not generally with such well formed loops. I’m curious to try another line/leader/fly on this rod to see if it changes things much. I’m double hauling on these and other casts.
    Just for grins, I went to the SA Tarpon Fly Line web page and saw that the 12wt Tarpon line is 400 grains @ 30 ft.
    I also went to the Rio Tropical Outbound Short web page and saw their 12wt Tropical OBS is 510 grains @ 30 ft.

    That's a whopping 110 grains difference between the two lines...................

    It'd be nice to give the Rio Tropical OBS a try and see what gives.........................


    Bob

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BS View Post
    I think the above in bold is the key here.
    A ~ 41 foot head is a whole lot of fly line to airealize and get to roll out consistently like you're trying to do.

    I'm curious to see if a different line/leader/fly combo changes your results as well.

    I'm thinking a ~ 30' ish head will yield much better results for you.

    Just my thoughts,


    Bob
    That does support one of my leading suspicions so far. Thing is I’m carrying more line than that on most of those casts too (probably closer to 50?). When I’m casting with just the head outside the tip I don’t tend to have many issues, but I am finding that to get more distance I can only shoot so much line; hence I’ve been toying around with both picking up more line and/or shooting a few feet into my back cast. I need to get back out and double check that a bit more carefully, maybe mark some distances on the line so I can see exactly how consistent I am with various amounts of line. I probably also need to spend a bit more of my time casting in the 40-60’ range, but damn it’s fun to get to see that line really fly when I get a good one!
    "Lord help me to be the person my dog thinks I am"
    - unknown

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    That does support one of my leading suspicions so far. Thing is I’m carrying more line than that on most of those casts too (probably closer to 50?). When I’m casting with just the head outside the tip I don’t tend to have many issues, but I am finding that to get more distance I can only shoot so much line; hence I’ve been toying around with both picking up more line and/or shooting a few feet into my back cast. I need to get back out and double check that a bit more carefully, maybe mark some distances on the line so I can see exactly how consistent I am with various amounts of line. I probably also need to spend a bit more of my time casting in the 40-60’ range, but damn it’s fun to get to see that line really fly when I get a good one!
    Here's one more thought Jason, then I'll step aside and let others give their thoughts.........

    It appears you're trying to cast with ~ 9 feet of running line (and "toying" with extending that distance even more) beyond the rod tip.
    Just imagine trying to cast a shooting head with 9+ feet of running line outside the tip top....................

    I've blown many casts trying to do that...................so, for me, a couple/few feet of running line outside the tip top (to allow room for a double haul) works just right.....................YMMV

    Watching to see how this unfolds !!!!!


    Bob

  4. #14
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    JasonB,
    For what it's worth, once you've discovered the amount of line that should remain outside your
    rod tip before beginning your cast, you might want to take a magic marker and mark that spot
    on the line. Many of my two-handed lines come with such an "indicator." The "indicator" is of a
    different color.
    Best to you in your search.
    Larry S
    Sun Diego

  5. #15
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    That does support one of my leading suspicions so far. Thing is I’m carrying more line than that on most of those casts too (probably closer to 50?). When I’m casting with just the head outside the tip I don’t tend to have many issues, but I am finding that to get more distance I can only shoot so much line; hence I’ve been toying around with both picking up more line and/or shooting a few feet into my back cast. I need to get back out and double check that a bit more carefully, maybe mark some distances on the line so I can see exactly how consistent I am with various amounts of line. I probably also need to spend a bit more of my time casting in the 40-60’ range, but damn it’s fun to get to see that line really fly when I get a good one!
    Jason,

    With all due respect to you and all the others who are trying to help you out with your question. It's very easy to end up with too many "cooks in the kitchen", hears my recommendation, go take a casting lesson from a very reputable person and perhaps photograph it. I'll bet you the instructor see's whats going on in a heart beat. another suggestion would be to bring a few different lines and have the guy watch you cast all of them, remember the line you can cast the easiest and have the most constant results is the line you want to toss, not some line that somebody else is trying to push down your thorough or that line works for them, we all have our own casting stroke.

    Carl Blackledge

  6. #16
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    Stick with Carl’s recommendation. Good Luck, Bob

  7. #17
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    JasonB,
    BTW, your casting instructor should have a go at your setup as well.
    Hope you keep us informed about your progress.
    Best,
    Larry S
    Sun Diego

  8. #18
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    Thanks for the advice guys! I managed to get in a few casts yesterday, and despite a substantial tailwind, I think I may have figured out what’s going on. Bob (bs) kind of verified one of the issues being too much line, though I hadn’t been able to pin down exactly how or why. I had noticed that it seemed to mostly happen when I was picking up more line, and wondered if I had too much “overhang” ... except that I did manage to get some casts to turn over with gusto with just as much line out on the pickup (just not with any consistency). In watching my casts yesterday it looks like I’m sometimes releasing the shooting line a hair early, which results in a nice tight loop that just doesn’t unroll all the way. When I don’t try to pick up more than the head + 2-3’, and I don’t try to cast more than about 60’ or so the issue is pretty much gone... try to pick up more line and shoot for the moon, I start seeing it appear sometimes.

    I think what’s happening is that as I’m picking up more line, and adding more drift to my backcast, I am lengthening my casting stroke; however, on the forward cast I’m not adjusting my tempo the same. In other words I’m doing a longer stroke, but still performing my haul and release to the tempo of a shorter quicker stroke: too early. I think I was even exacerbating the issue at time by suspecting that I needed more line speed, by focusing more on hauling I may have been starting it even sooner? Part of the issue I believe is I have been playing around a lot with making adjustments to my casting stroke with this rod in particular, as some lightbulbs are going on it’s been helpful, but it does mean I’m having some timing/coordination issues at times. All good stuff though.

    Carl’s suggestion about getting instruction is spot on, of course. Last year my wife and I both had a couple of lessons from Jeff Putnam, and it was very helpful and informative, even if not exactly ego boosting! I do hope to get in another day with Jeff Putnam this spring, but I also appreciate hearing others thoughts always.
    Cheers,
    JB
    Last edited by JasonB; 03-03-2020 at 07:21 AM.
    "Lord help me to be the person my dog thinks I am"
    - unknown

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
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    Santa Rosa, Calif
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    Jason,

    Please re-read your 2nd paragraph a few times, it starts off with "I think", your trying to fix yourself and your the problem, take the hypothetical out of the equation, perhaps have your wife film you? after you watch yourself it's pretty simple after that. Just trying to help you.

    Carl Blackledge

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Carson City NV
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    Thanks for the advice guys! I managed to get in a few casts yesterday, and despite a substantial tailwind, I think I may have figured out what’s going on. Bob (bs) kind of verified one of the issues being too much line, though I hadn’t been able to pin down exactly how or why. I had noticed that it seemed to mostly happen when I was picking up more line, and wondered if I had too much “overhang” ... except that I did manage to get some casts to turn over with gusto with just as much line out on the pickup (just not with any consistency). In watching my casts yesterday it looks like I’m sometimes releasing the shooting line a hair early, which results in a nice tight loop that just doesn’t unroll all the way. When I don’t try to pick up more than the head + 2-3’, and I don’t try to cast more than about 60’ or so the issue is pretty much gone... try to pick up more line and shoot for the moon, I start seeing it appear sometimes.

    I think what’s happening is that as I’m picking up more line, and adding more drift to my backcast, I am lengthening my casting stroke; however, on the forward cast I’m not adjusting my tempo the same. In other words I’m doing a longer stroke, but still performing my haul and release to the tempo of a shorter quicker stroke: too early. I think I was even exacerbating the issue at time by suspecting that I needed more line speed, by focusing more on hauling I may have been starting it even sooner? Part of the issue I believe is I have been playing around a lot with making adjustments to my casting stroke with this rod in particular, as some lightbulbs are going on it’s been helpful, but it does mean I’m having some timing/coordination issues at times. All good stuff though.

    Carl’s suggestion about getting instruction is spot on, of course. Last year my wife and I both had a couple of lessons from Jeff Putnam, and it was very helpful and informative, even if not exactly ego boosting! I do hope to get in another day with Jeff Putnam this spring, but I also appreciate hearing others thoughts always.
    Cheers,
    JB
    Jason,

    I'm not trying to start any kind of war or wizzin' match with anyone here, but, I firmly believe that having the "right tool(s)" for the "task at hand" and THEN learning how to use them correctly is the way to go.

    Given that......................................
    You "appear" to want to cast at distances greater than 60 feet.
    Your "skills set" appears to allow you to easily carry 50 feet of line in the air during false casting.................very nice !!!
    Your current fly line, head length of ~ 40 feet, works well for you up to and around 60 feet.
    Beyond 60 feet, things start "falling apart".

    It is a well documented given that longer heads will cast further than a shorter head........if the caster has the "skills" to do so.
    As you have found, ~40 head with ~10 feet of running line out past the tip top can't/doesn't transfer the energy efficiently/effectively to the head of your current fly line.

    I'm thinking you should do a "try before you buy" (if you can find one), a line with a 50 foot head length.

    **I don't sell fly fishing equipment, nor do I receive anything from anyone for any recommendations. **

    This looks like it (10 weight version) could be what you're looking for: https://www.scientificanglers.com/pr...infinity-salt/

    It's a ~50 foot head and appears to be a front loaded taper too (similar to a Rio OBS taper).
    At 50 feet the grain weight "should be" somewhere around 500 grains.

    To me, this line (or any similar line) looks to be the "correct tool" that you would use to accomplish your casting goals........ie. > 60 feet without the line "dumping".

    I strongly recommend the "try before you buy" route on this one.
    Shelling out $ 130.00 for an untested fly line is too risky and too rich for my blood........

    Once again, I'm not trying to start a war or wizzin' match here, I just think you should have the proper tool(s) to achieve your goals without becoming a tournament caster......not that there's anything wrong with that........

    My take and thinking "a little outside the box".


    Bob
    Last edited by BS; 03-03-2020 at 02:53 PM.

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