Anybody commenting proposed trout regulations for CA?

[Fishtopher]

"What fisheries ate depleted?"4 Look at a map of CA. With the excepton of the Lower Sac trout fishery and few special "never tell" places that we all have, id say most of CA's prime trout streams are not what they could and should be with a direct connection to regs or a lack there of.

You ever have an epic day on the Pit and wish you caught fewer fish?

Scientists are able to model all of that. I had a program in college where I could adjust things like harvest, slot limits, etc. and model how the population is affected. I can guarantee you CDFW does the same thing.

This stuff is accepted science. Just because you feel differently doesn't make it correct.

[Norcal_Flyfisherman]

I don’t see these changes having much impact on the North Fork of the Feather. Up until around 10 years ago, there were no special regulations on the NFF. The Plumas county line was the boundary; upstream closed with the mountain district and downstream was open with general regulations (Valley District). Fishing was great in both sections.

As a kid, I remember the fish limit dropping to 10 and hearing complaints from old timers that were used to 20 or even higher fish limits. There weren’t as many people fly fishing then, and most people used bait or spinners and kept fish for dinner. We’ve probably all seen the old photos and heard stories about how amazing the fishing was. I believe that there were more people fishing back then, and I think the decrease in fishing license sales reflect that. I don’t remember many special regulations back then.

It seems like the easy answer is to restrict fishing limits and access more, but the regs have gotten stricter over time with fewer people fishing, and the fishing has not improved. I’ve always felt that the approach to managing hunting and fishing in California was based on managing the hunters and fisherman, not the wildlife.

[OceanSunfish]

Which fisheries? With very few honorable rivers, all are depleted. Are you telling us that fish populations are the same like 20,30 or 40 years ago?. I've been fishing for over 50 years and every year is getting worst and worst. I don't need any fishery management to tell me what all of us have been experiencing. I recommend you to watch "Rivers of the lost coast" and that would give you an idea of what it was vs what it is. Extending the fishing season, increasing fish bags and opening certain healthy rivers to bait certainly won't help our fisheries nor will increase the number of licenses being sold.

40 million in CA and a scant care about fishing..................... It's not CA culture..... anymore.

mogaru wrote:
"Regulations made to put more pressure on the fish............once the fish are gone, whatever times it takes somebody else will take all the water.........little by little, working hard like ants they will reach their goal."

This is the bottom line. There isn't a single state agency that is freed up to manage the Fish and Game of California with the sportsman and culture a top priority. There are 20, 30, 40 50, 75, and even 100 year plans for this state.............. I bet not one has anything written in it that includes wild Chinook Salmon, a steelhead or a any part of the ecosystem or the food chain.

As far as the "science" of CDFW or DWR or BuRec............ Bullsh*t. It's all manipulated BS. Toss in the Center for Biological Diversity and you really got a three ring circus. Sorry, too cynical at this point. 99% of the fisheries I counted on being around at this stage of my life are abysmal. And, I'm not talking about the 2 out of every 10 year uptick when the "stars, moon, and sun" align and spite all the efforts to "ant-work" eradication.

[OceanSunfish]

When fish populations on the rivers were good and it was fairly easy to catch fish and entertain yourself, there were plenty of fishing licenses being sold as well as sell of tackle. The major reason for the decline in selling licenses and subsequent tackle sales is the decline of the fisheries.
Opening for harvest streams like the pit 3 will only deplete the few remaining areas with quality fishing populations...... and the water lords know that. Right now there are plenty of places and rivers where you can harvest your limits. These new regulations are just the final dagger to our declining fishing populations. Increasing the pressure on the fish by extending the season and places were you can harvest will not help the declining fish populations, quite the opposite, it will deplete it even further..........which I think is the goal of these regulations. What a shame !!!!!!

It is that simple................ it truly is. Ask anyone that has operated a fishing tackle business.

Yes. This only favors the "OPPORTUNIST" and those behind the "ant-work".

[OceanSunfish]

With all said.............. I am a big fan for fisheries that encourage family fishing participation. CA DFW and 3rd party agencies have programs that stock lakes in the summer time for recreation fishing. These areas can be in or around campgrounds, etc. Makes for a great experience for kids and parents. I think the continued support of seasonal "tourist" type fisheries do more good then easing regs on pressure sensitive waterways.

[mogaru]

Our resident trout populations aren't depleted, that is such a ridiculous statement. They certainly aren't depleted due to overfishing either. We have plenty of healthy fisheries in California. I know the Pit is better now than ever. The upper Sac is largely recovered after the spill. The McCloud is still what it has been. Fishing isn't getting worse and worse, its cyclical. Some streams are definitely aren't what they were 10 or 20 years ago, some are better now than they were 10 or 20 years ago. There's tons of factors that affect a fishery and fishing mortality is way down the list.

Rivers of a Lost Coast is a good example of what happens to salmon and steelhead when you log the crap out of an area and build dams and roads at will. Harvest was the least of the issues facing those fish. Salmon and steelhead are managed fundamentally different than trout populations.

You should try listening to fishery scientists, they know what they're talking about. They use actual statistics and science rather than feelings.

Young man, with your conclusions, I just hope and pray you are not one of the fishery scientist who is trying to fix our broken and depleted fisheries. Listen to all the warnings that scientist have been making about "overfishing" our oceans and rivers. quote " fishing is not getting worst and worst, it's cyclical" hahahahahaha, that's what I call a heavy dose of "pure science".
Let me give you a good advice, stop listening to bean counters and fake statistics and do some actual fishing, you will learn a lot more about the fisheries and their critical situations. I did for the last 50 years. No feelings over here, just cold hard facts from being on the river fishing and sadly watching their actual situation.

[Fishtopher]

Young man, with your conclusions, I just hope and pray you are not one of the fishery scientist who is trying to fix our broken and depleted fisheries. Listen to all the warnings that scientist have been making about "overfishing" our oceans and rivers. quote " fishing is not getting worst and worst, it's cyclical" hahahahahaha, that's what I call a heavy dose of "pure science".
Let me give you a good advice, stop listening to bean counters and fake statistics and do some actual fishing, you will learn a lot more about the fisheries and their critical situations. I did for the last 50 years. No feelings over here, just cold hard facts from being on the river fishing and sadly watching their actual situation.

I am an environmental scientist (don't work for CDFW) and realize fishing regulations have almost nothing to do with the current state of our fisheries. Things like habitat loss, water policy, diversions, invasive species, and climate change are by far the largest threats to our fisheries. CDFW has little control over these things. I realize addressing those problems will do infinitely more than keeping a few trout. You have yet to cite any examples of these super prevalent 'depleted' trout fisheries.

And let me give you good advice, there's a big difference between anecdotal evidence and peer reviewed science. Your 'cold-hard facts' aren't facts at all. Statistics and science are. I think I'll trust the professionals working on this stuff than some random person reminiscing about the good old days.

[Lew Riffle]

Fishtoper The truth is often more complex than what we believe to be true. Some times it's just time to shut up and listen for the truth in the din of your beliefs. To me you express unconscious incompetence. Don't you realize that "professionals working on this stuff" in the CDFW are more motivated in saving their jobs than the environment? It's a delusion to think that there is data other than what a model has generated with little or old data in the first place. This is the smoke and mirrors of the half science half political homogenized world of environmental science. Sorry environmental science is not real science only applied science. Most of the time it suppresses science for the sake of it's other half... politics.
The trout fisheries we have today exist because of the forging and hard work on making regulation to protect from over fishing. Most of this has come about from the persistence of, not staff, but volunteers who do not have to risk their jobs and can represent the passion to save fish and advocate for them. Most of the time this is silently expressing the views of a DFG biologist who could not for the sake of a career. I have learned to listen to the silence from one who knows the answer to my question; but is afraid to answer it. If you can follow my abstraction I hope you can find some truth somewhere else than trusting a "professional".

[Fishtopher]

Fishtoper The truth is often more complex than what we believe to be true. Some times it's just time to shut up and listen for the truth in the din of your beliefs. To me you express unconscious incompetence. Don't you realize that "professionals working on this stuff" in the CDFW are more motivated in saving their jobs than the environment? It's a delusion to think that there is data other than what a model has generated with little or old data in the first place. This is the smoke and mirrors of the half science half political homogenized world of environmental science. Sorry environmental science is not real science only applied science. Most of the time it suppresses science for the sake of it's other half... politics.
The trout fisheries we have today exist because of the forging and hard work on making regulation to protect from over fishing. Most of this has come about from the persistence of, not staff, but volunteers who do not have to risk their jobs and can represent the passion to save fish and advocate for them. Most of the time this is silently expressing the views of a DFG biologist who could not for the sake of a career. I have learned to listen to the silence from one who knows the answer to my question; but is afraid to answer it. If you can follow my abstraction I hope you can find some truth somewhere else than trusting a "professional".

Lew,
I don't need you to tell me what to do or how to think. To me you reek of conspiracy theorist. This thread is filled with armchair experts who think they know better than the people that dedicate their entire careers to. I work with these people and I can tell you the scientists that study this kind of stuff do it because they care about the resource. Politics does hijack management but all management is based on science.

I agree our trout fisheries are what they are because of regulation but regulations need to be reevaluated from time to time. These regulations aren't opening everything up to mass slaughter. It's a bunch of pretentious fly fishermen who want to exclude other user groups. This is why everyone hates fly fishermen.

[JasonB]

Kind of wondered if this thread would go off the rails....

To bad, as there are some important things to consider and discuss here.
Tight lines everyone
JB