Sad state of affairs - scuba divers spearing big Stripers.....

[Rossflyguy]

Let's not kid ourselves, let's not be naive. If it wasn't for the fish, call it smelt, salmon, striper etc, etc, the agribusiness would take all the water. These powerful people would do anything to eradicate fish from our rivers so they can take as much water as they need. Water releases from dams flow into the delta where a system of weirs distributes it to the water lords are dictated based on their needs and if they could they would take twice as much. The fish are the only thing stopping them from doing it.

I agree with that. But I don’t agree it’s the striper stopping them.

[Rossflyguy]

Rossfly you're wrong if you think possession of a disassembled spear gun is legal on the banks of the AR.

The last Ranger I spoke with emphatically said that possession of disassembled spear gear is just as illegal as fully assembled spear gear. He said he would ticket that guy just as fast as he would ticket a guy with a disassembled handgun. I think most spear guys are smart enough to know when they're breaking the law; they just hope to escape enforcement.

Another thing ignored by the apologists of spear guys is the DFW Regs limit spearfishing to May 1 -Sept 15, and no spear fishing is permitted any time of year in the designated salmon spawning areas. The designated salmon spawning area of the American river is all the water between Nimbus Dam and a point one mile downstream from Arden Way.

That's the entire upper half of the river from Gristmill upstream that's banned from spear fishing.

I’m only repeating what someone had said a ranger told them. That’s why I said I read it in the same debate from a year or so ago.

[Bob Laskodi]

I have never addressed the speargun issue with any body from the Sheriff's office. Mostly because the only place I ever see them is while ticketing people in the parking lots and have never actually seen a Sheriff on the banks of the American River. I have also called the referenced Sheriff phone number several times and have never had an actual person answer the phone (only voicemail). The two times I left call back numbers I never received a call back. So, I'm not impressed with any Sheriff responding to any phone call to the referenced phone number.

In regards to the claim "you're wrong if you think possession of a disassembled spear gun is legal on the banks of the AR", the discussions I have had with DFW Wardens (who I do frequently see on the river) disagree with your statement. I was told by two different DFW Wardens at two different locations that they will NOT cite anyone in possession of a speargun in any waters that are open to legal spearfishing and participating in that activity. Both Wardens did mention the closed dates and area locations to spearfishing on the American as referenced and stated that they WOULD cite any person in possession of a speargun at those locations/times. So, it seems to me quite clearly, there are differing responses (from differing LEO personnel) to the legality of possession of a speargun on the American River.
I'm personally not in favor of spearfishing on the American, I am not a "spearfishing guy", and am simply reporting my observations on this issue.

Rossfly you're wrong if you think possession of a disassembled spear gun is legal on the banks of the AR.

The last Ranger I spoke with emphatically said that possession of disassembled spear gear is just as illegal as fully assembled spear gear. He said he would ticket that guy just as fast as he would ticket a guy with a disassembled handgun. I think most spear guys are smart enough to know when they're breaking the law; they just hope to escape enforcement.

Another thing ignored by the apologists of spear guys is the DFW Regs limit spearfishing to May 1 -Sept 15, and no spear fishing is permitted any time of year in the designated salmon spawning areas. The designated salmon spawning area of the American river is all the water between Nimbus Dam and a point one mile downstream from Arden Way.

That's the entire upper half of the river from Gristmill upstream that's banned from spear fishing.

[Mark V]

Yes Rossflyguy, you again repeated that unsubstantiated rumor. Weren't you the "Striper everywhere!" guy in the thread a couple years ago? If I remember correctly, you don't live in the Sac area, and never fished the American river by any method. Or did you simply not say?

It's almost as if you repeat the unsubstantiated rumor and ignore the reports from County Rangers because you think if you repeat it enough times, it will become true.

I'm curious, why is it that you bless us with your posts on this forum? Why are you so interested in the topic of spear fishing on the American river? Most ppl posting here are pretty obvious and transparent about their motives. We're guys who fish for many different species of fish in our backyard waters, mainly with flies, and we post here to share experiences, techniques, talk equipment, and especially about protecting all the different species of fish... all so that the fish populations and the fishing will get better for everyone, not worse.

Why are you here?

[Darian]

OK Rossflyguy, you've finally stated your point:

"The whole point I’m trying to make is killing stripers isn’t going to effect water consumption by big AG either way. If striper were wiped out tomorrow that wouldn’t change water distribution. This is my entire point." I can agree with that.

[Mark V]

Bob, I can't say about DFW wardens on the river. I've never called DFW to report spearfishers illegally in the salmon spawning areas, or to ask them if they enforce the County ordinances. I don't assume DFW wardens care about enforcing the county ordinance against possession of spear gear on the AR Parkway.


I called the Sac Co. Sheriffs non-emergency number 916-875-7275 just a few minutes ago to see how easy it would be to get through. It IS an automated system, and within a few seconds offers you to press 1 for Ranger dispatch; then the next menu offers different options this and that and the other, etc, etc, etc---and at the end says Press zero for Ranger dispatch. I pressed zero and was speaking with a Ranger dispatcher. I asked if this was the right number to call to report illegal spearfishing on the American river, and the dispatcher asked me where they were.

I explained I wanted to verify this was the best phone # to use to report, and l also asked to talk to a Ranger about the spearfishing Regs and their enforcement. Just like in June of 2015 and June 2016, the dispatcher took my name & number for one of the Rangers to call me back.

A very pleasant surprise that I got through to a dispatcher so quickly, and they seemed eager to send a Ranger to cite a law breaker. I remember another time in the fall year before last, I was walking along the river bank below Sunrise and I called that number from my cell to report a couple of guys digging REALLY BIG holes in the river bed as they were apparently mining for gold. The Rangers responded and apparently the digging they were doing was not approved/legal and got stopped.

On the other hand, I just paused writing this to try the number again, and got a busy signal several times in a row. I remember that happening a bit a couple years ago, which is why I say be patient.


Like you, I am not in favor of spearfishing on the American, I am not a "spearfishing guy", I'll agree that different Law Enforcement Officers have differing policies, especially DFW wardens different from County Sheriffs (Rangers). I spent many days on the water in the summer and I've seen quite a few Rangers on the banks.

[STEELIES/26c3]

It's based on neither... water management is based on money and profit

[STEELIES/26c3]

Water management for fish isn’t based on striper numbers. It’s based on salmon population.

It's based on neither... water management is based on money and profit
and any fishery which can be legally, even if not scientifically or acceptably exploited, will be exploited

[winxp_man]

Ross to your reply to what I stated about striper fishermen (but also mentioned black bass to which you just read right over) my point was pretty dam simple. These because of the black bass and stripers in the delta we (for now) have a hold or stop to the delta tunnels!!!!!! It was not an argument that striper need water flows or not! Yes the main species at play is salmon and steelhead. Butfact if the matter is that if it where just up to salmon guys...... we might have had tunnels built in the delta! As Steelie posted once how not many fly guys showed up how many more where even gear salmon guys??? Bet to say not many! Black bass is big money in the delta and stripers also bring in revenue. This people fought what they don’t want to see go away because of the tunnel sucking the fresh water out of the delta system.

And to the original statement I don’t agree at all that stripers are ruining salmon numbers. It’s the dams that are limiting spawning grounds for fish! It’s simple! The America river is like a 1 gallon fish tank! The American River with the head waters is like a 100 gallon tank.... which will support bigger numbers? Pretty damn obvious! While these fish are locked in the lower river as the only spawning grounds nothing will ever improve! Why well.... sac pike, sucker fish, and whatever other predator you find will take over if stripes are wiped out. Again to what my first post here was stripers are not an issue that if gone will fix the salmon problems!

[John Sv]

Ross to your reply to what I stated about striper fishermen (but also mentioned black bass to which you just read right over) my point was pretty dam simple. These because of the black bass and stripers in the delta we (for now) have a hold or stop to the delta tunnels!!!!!! It was not an argument that striper need water flows or not! Yes the main species at play is salmon and steelhead. Butfact if the matter is that if it where just up to salmon guys...... we might have had tunnels built in the delta! As Steelie posted once how not many fly guys showed up how many more where even gear salmon guys??? Bet to say not many! Black bass is big money in the delta and stripers also bring in revenue. This people fought what they don’t want to see go away because of the tunnel sucking the fresh water out of the delta system.

And to the original statement I don’t agree at all that stripers are ruining salmon numbers. It’s the dams that are limiting spawning grounds for fish! It’s simple! The America river is like a 1 gallon fish tank! The American River with the head waters is like a 100 gallon tank.... which will support bigger numbers? Pretty damn obvious! While these fish are locked in the lower river as the only spawning grounds nothing will ever improve! Why well.... sac pike, sucker fish, and whatever other predator you find will take over if stripes are wiped out. Again to what my first post here was stripers are not an issue that if gone will fix the salmon problems!

Aron, not sure if you saw my post but I believe your observation about salmon fishermen is inaccurate: http://www.goldengatesalmon.org/