Pegging beads...more controversial than pineapple on pizza???

[Ralph]

That Artificial Fly definition stated above is certainly subject to interpretation especially with synthetic materials now part of the game.

I agree totally. It is a terrible definition, but I think anyone in the industry, in the sport, or on the side of LE will agree that step one in tying a fly by "the method called fly tying" starts with a hook. There isn't a hook in a bead. A plastic bead isn't a fly by anyone's definition unless it is incorporated into a fly pattern.

I don't have a dog in this race, I truly don't give a shit how the next person fishes. I was asked a question and have been honestly answering your questions ever since. Sorry that you don't like my opinions, but I really don't care. You got my opinion, and if you don't want to hear more, please don't ask 'cause you might not like what I have to say.

[cyama]

My theory is that after you get a little more into fly fishing is that begin to appreciate what fly fishing is all about. Yes fishing beads will land you a lot more fish some say five to one vs nymphs during the egg bite and 8-10 fish vs dry flies if you are a good bead guy. The older I get the less I fish beads. They are good to figure out where the fish are and while you sitting behind the redds you can see where the fish are rising, but there is nothing better than watching a fish rise to a dry fly you tied and the fish jumps a foot two out the water to grab it!!! This is something I learned while watching Bill Lowe fish the Yuba. He used to fish the flats with dry flies during the egg bite! I would be in the riffles below him hooking fish and running after the fish peeling line. Bill would always say something like another great day on the Yuba as he floated past the salmon redds!! His clients always seemed to have a big smile as well.

Also the original point of Gregg's post is correct. Fishing with beads usually hooks the fish on the lip. Fishing with glo bugs or other egg patterns tied on the hook usually hooks fish deeper. I would say that 80-90% of the fish I have caught with beads are inside the mouth. Less than 1% are hooked in the eye, about the same as fishing with any other nymph. Also the only river that you are required to fish artificial flies is Hot Creek. Most special reg rivers say artificial lures this includes treble hooks.

[ycflyfisher]

Gregg started this thread by stating his concern about trout getting hooked deep on egg patterns (beads). I'm wondering if there is a practical reason why a guy can't tie an egg pattern on a circle hook? I mean, other then the fact that the smallest I've seen is a Gama # 8. I'm not an expert on circle hooks but wouldn't that help with the deep hook issue?

I have experimented with flies including egg patterns on non-offset circles. Mainly because an retired guide I know told me of his experiences using circles for his clients that fish bait and how the fish never seem to throw circles.

The same guide predicted that they would fail epically on dead drift and WFS applications, but would perform adequately on the greaseline presentations where you let the line belly purposely and allow the belly to swim the fly. He was correct on all three.

With circles, the fish needs to turn to create tension to pull the bend of the hook into the jaw. If you set before that happens, you generally don't get contact.

[ycflyfisher]

To reiterate (and to kick a super dead horse haha) my position from the start was:

Egg style patterns that are tied on the shank of the hook seem to be taken dangerously deep.

Pegged beads (as shown in my last picture) never seem to be taken deep and allow for an easier hook removal and release.

Egg style patterns tied on the shank seem to get a pass from criticism.

Pegged beads seem to bring out snobbish responses and accusations of “snagging” or “flossing”.

The convo about how easy it is to catch a fish on one is totally valid and interesting, but not at all the point or intent of this thread.

Gregg,

I think it's pretty hilarious that you've got 6 pages of responses, most all of which fail to address your talking points.

Personally, I haven't noticed or experienced a disproportionate amount of tongue/throat/gullet hooked fish on egg patterns, and egg patterns for me consist of (boiled to remove the odor) Mister Twister Exude eggs lashed to the shank of a Daiichi 1150 with the loop of a palomar knot. That puts a noticeable crease in the egg, but the fish don't care. It also keeps the egg out of the hook gap.

How I rig it probably has something to do with it. I use stout tippet to the egg 1 or 2x, and drop a point fly usually an invert pattern on 3x if the bug is a 14 or larger, off the bend of the 1150.

I rig it like this because I think it gets me more grabs because the movement of the egg is limited from being tethered at both ends while the bug is more mobile in the current and can tumble a bit.

The egg is a spherical ball that looks relatively the same from all angles whether it's tumbling or not. Not the case with a PT or larval invert pattern. One of the two flies needs to be dual tethered to fish a tandem rig, and for me it's a no brainer that the dual tethered fly should be the egg.

With the egg tethered at both ends, I seem to deep hook more fish on the invert, not the egg. That's just my anecdotal observations, nothing more.

I've never pegged a bead and have only once fished with a buddy who was big into pegging beads after he came back from Alaska. He's since gone the rubber egg on the shank route.

Fish eggs are a reality wherever there's fish spawning, and eggs can definitely dominate the biomass of the drift. Ignoring that for the sake of doing so, just doesn't fit my definition of working on 'skills'. To me it's no different than 'figuring out' that the fish are keyed in on one distinct phase of an ephemerella/ rithro/ bifila hatch and I just don't get how anyone can equate what amounts to more 'favorable' results to somehow being less work, but clearly we all fish with different goals.

[mogaru]

I agree totally. It is a terrible definition, but I think anyone in the industry, in the sport, or on the side of LE will agree that step one in tying a fly by "the method called fly tying" starts with a hook. There isn't a hook in a bead. A plastic bead isn't a fly by anyone's definition unless it is incorporated into a fly pattern.

I don't have a dog in this race, I truly don't give a shit how the next person fishes. I was asked a question and have been honestly answering your questions ever since. Sorry that you don't like my opinions, but I really don't care. You got my opinion, and if you don't want to hear more, please don't ask 'cause you might not like what I have to say.

There isn't a hook in a tube fly either .......at least initially............

[TahoeJoe]

Point of clarification here, it is quite legal to bead fish in Alaska. The Southcentral regulations -2017 state:

Use of attractor (bead): An attractor (including a bead), when used with an artificial fly, artificial lure, or bare hook must be:
- Either fixed within two inches of the bare hook, fly or lure,
- Or, be free sliding on the line or leader.
- A bead fished on the line above a bare single hook is legal gear in waters where only flies may be used.

So, it's legal but more than two inches is deemed to be snagging.

Also from http://peninsulaclarion.com/stories/...l#.WjldEVWnFaQ

Soldotna biologist Bruce King of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, which writes the regulations and is responsible for managing the fishery, said all scientific evidence indicates that pegging beads within two inches of the hook doesn't cause any more fisheries problems than pegging beads at the hook or letting them float free.

[EricO]

Nothing to add to pegging beads.

For pizza Gregg...I'm with you. Pineapple adds that subtle sweetness that completes a pizza.

My go to is: Pepperoni, mushroom, ham and pineapple. Heavenly.

Btw, great report...nice getting after it when it's winter, and having results to boot!

There is a great pizza joint off Glenshire. In fair weather, you can sit outside
and look over cool meadows and nice homes. A few good beer taps too.

http://www.glenshirepizza.com/

Eric

[Darian]

Addressing the original question, if you're a person who likes to practice C&R, hooking fish deeply would cause more damage than a quick release of a fish hooked in or near the mouth. With that in mind, the choice off fly/lure is easy (based on the choice of egg patterns or pegged beads by the original poster). I would choose the fly/lure that in my experience causes least damage to fish.

As to the regs, perhaps the reason for ambiguity in defining what is a fly is due to the vast number of differing opinions about what is a fly and the fact that fly patterns and materials have been and continue to edvolve. Considering the difficulty in defining what is a fly, I'm not surprised that DFW chose a simple description.

According to the section of the regs describing snagging, (paraphrasing) if a fish is hooked outside the mouth it has been snagged and must be released. The intent of the fish in striking the lure has absolutely nothing to do with it and, unless you're using a fly/lure that is actually defined as illegal in the code, the fly/lure doesn't figure into the definition of snagging either. IMO, this only becomes an issue for enforcement if you're hooking fish outside the mouth and keeping them.

[E.Drucker]

Fishing a pegged bead properly is in no way "snagging", fish. Fish eat eggs, fish eat bugs, fish eat other fish. As fly fishermen we fish those patterns. So when one is fishing an egg pattern he is simply matching the "hatch". Just because someone is using a pattern that 'ONE", doesn't agree with does not mean they are snagging.

Eggs are a controversial pattern...beads even more so. They work great and are part of a fishes diet. Some purists will turn their noses up at those fishing those said patterns. So be it. It leaves more egg eaters for me

Fuckin' A my brother. You know where I stand

[Gregg]

ahhh yessss, 7 pages and 3100 views, I guess this is controversial haha.

Went back out yesterday and actually ran into Jim / Bigfly at Glenshire for the first time, super nice to meet you in real life finally Jim.

Jim actually walked me and a buddy down to the water and we seined the water oddly enough for my first time ever. I was blown away at what's crawling around down there at a time of the year I didn't expect to find much. To give it a fair shake I fished golden stones, green drake nymphs, caddis pupae, midges and everything else we saw on the net and matched flies to bugs pretty darn close...but no love from the trouts. I'm gonna partially chalk it up to the guides freezing on every cast making mending and bumping line near impossible with a lighter terminal rig and also me feeling near drunk wading out there as my feet went numb, but I know mostly that fishing matching patterns / true flies is overall more difficult where as a dumb bead just bounces around and can look unnatural and still be ok.

All that being said, switched back to the legs and eggs combo and started poking fish, a couple of the best looking ones I've found lately.








Interesting side note, sometime throughout the day someone siphoned a bunch of gas from my tank while I was upstream...first time it's happened to me and an unusual spot for someone to come down to for a few gallons, but guess I'll have to check back in more often / randomly when I'm down there next. Someone could probably find themselves in a pretty bad spot to get caught swooping gas / messing with someone's truck I'd imagine...