Pegging beads...more controversial than pineapple on pizza???

[Gregg]

To reiterate (and to kick a super dead horse haha) my position from the start was:

Egg style patterns that are tied on the shank of the hook seem to be taken dangerously deep.

Pegged beads (as shown in my last picture) never seem to be taken deep and allow for an easier hook removal and release.

Egg style patterns tied on the shank seem to get a pass from criticism.

Pegged beads seem to bring out snobbish responses and accusations of “snagging” or “flossing”.

The convo about how easy it is to catch a fish on one is totally valid and interesting, but not at all the point or intent of this thread.

[Gregg]

Ralph that’s a very interesting article, read the entire thing. But in the pic it shows the bead pegged, what...8 inches above the hook? I’ve never seen that done, ever. That’s psychotic and completely obvious. Is that the standard you’ve seen in CA waters? Any guide I’ve seen peg a bead and every rig I’ve ever seen with my own eyes uses a maximum of a finger width between bead and hook. Who is the world is actually putting an 8”+ gap between them. Maybe the rules need to be clarified to reflect a reasonable gap, but I didn’t know anyone seriously rigs like that in the first place.

[bigfly]

Don't take this all wrong....
I think it's cool if you look out for the fish.
When you say pegging beads, some of us see a series of beads, and a hook down there somewhere......
That is flossing.....
If you are fishing only one bead and are getting lower rates of foul hooks, then carry on....till they change the regs, if ever.
I fished with a guy one day who had issues with outside hookups.
Maybe he wasn't as dial in......but I was off-put by the style..more like horrified......
Could be an old guy thing.....or a young guy thing......
I won't be using beads, and rarely an egg, partly due to the suck-down effect when they eat.
At times in my career I would do about anything to catch fish. Over time "how" you get it done comes to matter more than outfishing the other guys and laughing at the their struggles to hook up.....or at least that's what happened to me.....
It doesn't seem like a challenge to me when the fish are too easy to catch. I'm here for the difficulty not gross numbers.
Perhaps you and I will meet on the water and you can enlighten me.......but I think bottom line, you need to be honest about how many fish out of ten, get hooked inside......if it's well over 8 fish hooked fairly... then I think it's no worse than normal.
I know a guy who fishes a pegged egg 1" above a silly worm w/hook, he doesn't get any foul hookups......
To answer your earlier question, I do think if more guys, get more fish more often with less work.....it will not help the fishery.
Treat them like a commodity...and they won't last forever.
And a nick name I acquired is Yoda....but honestly, we are all padawans.....

And I once fished a live shiner on a fly rod and reel......that didn't make it fly fishing.......fly fishing sort of implies flies...or bugs.

Jim

[Siskiyoublues]

Here is what is going on in Wyoming a few years after Game and Fish formally declared pegged beads as a snagging device and specifically outlawed the use. Interesting perspective.

http://www.minturnanglers.com/events...-platte-river/

From the article..."I know for a fact that the bead rig if setup correctly does not hurt fish and it’s not snagging."

[Gregg]

Jim I think that’s a great perspective and position and one I agree with. I wanted this thread to define clarity on the technicality of pegged beads vs glo-bug type flies and which, if the angler chooses to fish this style, is a safer method. From what I can gather the answer, unanimously, is a bead pegged well within reason. One finger width / 1” maximum above the hook. I think that’s completely reasonable, and the use / sales of glo-bug type flies should probably be discouraged due to the nature of them being taken deeper and injuring the fish.

As for what’s “sporting” or “ethical”, I totally see what you’re getting at and, like most, enjoy the challenge. It isn’t hard to have 20 fish days when there’s a BWO or caddis hatch coming off strong. It definitley isn’t hard at all to catch trout during a hex hatch on Almanor. You can have an absolute field day with one ant pattern working the edges at Manzanita in the summer, and I have buddies in Utah who can catch monster browns throwing an articulated streamer into the same spot on the Middle Provo without fail every single time. I thought they were kidding until I went and did it myself. It was stupidly easy. All experiences are fun, and I appreciate an angler who utilizes all techniques at the right time, and more so one who starts learning how to handle fish better, picks up trash on the river, contributes to wildlife charities...and maybe most importantly, helps teach someone coming up and showing them a path to success and enjoyment on the water. None of that means I don’t like a challenge, but I’m not going to dye a March brown pattern chartreuse and throw that at them just because fishing what they’re looking for is too easy.

[cdevine]

I don't think I have enough experience fishing "egg" patterns to suggest they are taken deeper or not. I caught some nice fish on the EW on an egg pattern (not a bead) and they were in the lip last week. But honestly most of the fish I caught were on other patterns like a midge and small stonefly.

What surprises me about CA is actually the ability to fish multiple flies. When I was in BC a guy at the fly shop was appalled when I told him the style rig I typically use on our freestone and tail waters. Last year during the high run off I stopped using multiple fly rigs. Lost too many flies and pain in the ass to start/stop.

We have some odd regs to be honest. One of the strangest if you ask me is on the lower sac which arguably has the most wild fish per mile as any tail water in CA. You can fish bait and roe but has to be barbless hooks and C&R... Huh.... Guys throwing worms and crickets on barbless hooks.... That needs to change before beads if you ask me.

Didn't mean to hijack. Like I said I haven't fished beads since Alaska years back. But that is just me. My winter menu is mainly midges subsurface. I wish I had better eye sight or else I would be throwing 22-24 midges in the film these days. Damn eyes.

Fish on!

[JD]

To reiterate (and to kick a super dead horse haha) my position from the start was:

Egg style patterns that are tied on the shank of the hook seem to be taken dangerously deep.

Pegged beads (as shown in my last picture) never seem to be taken deep and allow for an easier hook removal and release.

Egg style patterns tied on the shank seem to get a pass from criticism.

Pegged beads seem to bring out snobbish responses and accusations of “snagging” or “flossing”.

The convo about how easy it is to catch a fish on one is totally valid and interesting, but not at all the point or intent of this thread.

Perhaps a pegged bead has less chance of being taken deep. Not sure that is the case if you have a very short distance between the hook and bead, but let's just say it is true. It does not remove the chance of damage regardless. I stopped pegging beads when I noticed the much greater frequency of hooking a fish in or near the eye. I'm a bit surprised every fish in the Lower Sac. isn't blind by the end of the fall.

Think you missed Ralph's point about pegging beads being the equivalent of snagging, Greg. If you are intentionally using a method that is designed to hook a fish outside the mouth, you are snagging. Amusing how little this regulation is enforced considering just one weekend in October of writing tickets would probably put the Fly Shop out of business. This is not a moral nor sportsmanship issue, this is what the regulations say. And the hackneyed "but they don't enforce it" reply does not invalidate the regulation any more than folks speeding invalidate the traffic laws.

Plenty of discussions out there about how egg patterns are not really flies, so not sure about the statement that the rest are considered OK. Pegged beads are a special case because of the method used, not whether or not it is a fly. I typically prefer a melted bead approach myself, and if folks do not consider it a fly, that is their problem. I will tell you it is a much less effective way of fishing a bead in my experience, but in general I have found it less harmful to the fish than the other methods tried. YMMV.

[Ralph]

Plenty of discussions out there about how egg patterns are not really flies,

In California at least, not much to discuss, a plastic bead is certainly NOT a fly!
California code:

1.08. ARTIFICIAL FLY.
Any fly constructed by the method known as fly tying.

[cdevine]

In California at least, not much to discuss, a plastic bead is certainly NOT a fly!
California code:

1.08. ARTIFICIAL FLY.
Any fly constructed by the method known as fly tying.

So are you saying fishing a bead is illegal and you can be cited/fined in CA? Fishing a bead is snagging and its also not a fly. That Artificial Fly definition stated above is certainly subject to interpretation especially with synthetic materials now part of the game.

My question then becomes has anybody been cited or know of anybody who has been cited/fined for fishing this method? If I have a little time to kill I'm going to try and call and get an answer. I'm more curious than anything. Certainly don't want anybody to get in trouble.

[Mark Kranhold]

Wait a minute! Is this the steelhead page or are folks just a little antsy right about now do to the lack of steelhead jibber jabber