Gold Ray Dam removal on Rogue River, Oregon.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD4QHkN57FM





time lapse......

[STEELIES/26c3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD4QHkN57FM





time lapse......

GOOD STUFF there Bill!

I wish it was as fast in real time... but that is cool we can see the project from start to finish in a few minutes like that.

I next watched the dam removal on the Elwah River. NAT GEO did a nice documentary video on the dam removal and significant impacts it had not just on allowing salmon passage but also for flushing tons of sediment, creating delta habitat, creating nearshore nursery and increasing the fauna and flora crucial not only to Chinook but also to Coho, Steelhead, Chum and Bull trout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VipVo8zPH0U

[Bwag]

In 2015, Evans Creek, a tributary to the Rogue, located upriver from Grants Pass had the Wimer and Fielder dams removed which opened up 70 miles of spawning habitat. Just last week my dad was telling me a friend of his who lives probably 15-20 miles up Evans Creek saw Chinook Spawning this season.

Gold Ray came down in 2010.

Numbers don't lie, take a look at the fish counts at Cole Rivers Hatchery, granted these fish wouldn't benefit from any additional spawning habitat but they would benefit from not having to climb a fish ladder. Could be coincidence but I'm guessing hatchery fish benefited from Gold Ray coming down as well.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/fish...Rivers_StS.pdf

Looking at the Huntley Park Seine Counts, one could argue that the fish, hatchery or not, benefited from dam removal as the park is 8 or so miles from the mouth.

Look at the 10 year average vs 2017.

Steelhead
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/fish..._steelhead.pdf

Coho
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/fish.../2017/coho.pdf

Half Pounders
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/fish...f-pounders.pdf

Chinook
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/fish...ll_chinook.pdf

While Oregon has done a great thing by tearing these dams down, I'm worried legalization of Weed more specifically the cultivation of it will minimize or reverse the good that has been done. Lots of land being sold/bought to grow the devils lettuce, I've seen cattle pastures get bought up, watched the cattle disappear and the weed growers come in and set up shop then suck water right out of Evans Creek to grow their weed. I don't smoke weed and I'm not opposed to those who do, I am opposed to how it's grown and the poor regulation on how it's done. Last summer I talked with an Oregon State Trooper while I was on the Rogue, we talked about the ridiculous amount of weed being grown and how a lot of it is being transported outside of the state, he also said that the Cartels were buying the weed from legal growers and basically saying, "Were going to buy your whole crop, and you're going to sell it to us at this price".

Those of us who fish the Klamath should take note, it's happening there too. We all know the illegal grows are no good for the river, I don't have any faith the legal grows will be either and I doubt the illegal grows will go away. Lots of land being bought to grow.

http://www.thecannifornian.com/canna...ices-humboldt/

Not trying to hijack your thread Bill with the discussion of weed, just adding some food for thought...

[hwchubb]

Amazing that Gold Ray came down in 2010. I thought it was much more recently than that.

Brag raises a great point about the me crop. The Medford area has become the new “world headquarters” for the industry it seems. Those who are doing it within the framework of the law can’t make money, there is a huge surplus of it now, and the only ones who are profitable are sending output of state - in other words, still illegally. A lot of it is flown out Medford Airport - private plane security for domestic flights is still incredibly lax. With all the new grow going in, I have to imagine that the Rogue watershed is being impacted, and I fear the same for the Trinity, Klamath, Russian, Shasta, Eel and any other rivers in the growing area watersheds. They are already struggling, especially the ones with anadramous fisheries. The economic miracle of marijuana won’t help those fisheries.

[hwchubb]

Bwag raises a good point, not brag. Freaking spell check.

[JayDubP]

Look at what has happened in Colorado to ease your concerns.

Why would growing weed be any different than growing hay or apples or berries? In fact, most weed growers are basically organic, so weed might be less taxing on the environment than grapes. Illegal growers are more likely to take water from springs or small remote creeks that do not have fish. Pumping water from a river or any decent size creek is asking to get busted.

In reality, legalization will result in large, corporate farms to reduce the cost and areas where water has been used for agricultural uses for years.... Colorado has proven that illegal growers disappear as the retail price of weed decreases due to supply. And small, illegal growers cannot compete price-wise with large growers. Look at the wine industry and even small fruit growers vs large corporate farms.

[STEELIES/26c3]

Look at what has happened in Colorado to ease your concerns.

Why would growing weed be any different than growing hay or apples or berries? In fact, most weed growers are basically organic, so weed might be less taxing on the environment than grapes. Illegal growers are more likely to take water from springs or small remote creeks that do not have fish. Pumping water from a river or any decent size creek is asking to get busted.

In reality, legalization will result in large, corporate farms to reduce the cost and areas where water has been used for agricultural uses for years.... Colorado has proven that illegal growers disappear as the retail price of weed decreases due to supply. And small, illegal growers cannot compete price-wise with large growers. Look at the wine industry and even small fruit growers vs large corporate farms.

True that BUT the ones willing to export their crop to states with stricter laws will continue to rape the land and watersheds to do it.

[Bwag]

JayDubP,

I don't know if Colorado has/had the size of grows legal/illegal as does Humbolt or the west coast does, they don't have an anadromous fishery, not even close in population size (in speaking of supply/demand/export) and I don't know if they have had the type of drought California has so I'm not sure there's a comparison to be made there. Oregon has legal weed, like the State Trooper told me this summer, the Cartels are just buying up the legal growers crop at their designated price, they haven't gone away.

You can drive up and down the Klamath and see weed being grown in the open not far from the banks, these are small grows. Like you said, the large illegal ones are hidden amongst the forest which does force them to take water from springs or small remote creeks but those creeks are either spawning habitat or feed into larger creeks which are spawning habitat thus reducing habitat for salmon/steelhead to spawn or use as thermal refugia. If there was ever a time to see the importance of thermal refugia and small springs/creeks it was during the drought or late summer on the Klamath. I know of a 12,000 plant grow that was raided right along the banks of a creek that feeds into the Klamath down low on the river. I watched this summer as hundreds of Steelhead used that creek and its cool water to make it through the heat of late summer. With the dams in place those small springs/creeks are more important than ever, fish or no fish in them. If you really want an idea of the number of people growing weed, cartel or not go sit at the Willow Creek gas station for a day and watch how many trucks pull up with their beds full of gas cans. Substitute the Klamath for any watershed along the northern California Coast and it's the same deal different watershed.

I don't have any faith that a corporation will treat the land any different than an illegal grower would if they know they can get away with it, they aren't in the business of losing money, not sure if you're familiar with Monsanto if you are, cool, if not, take a look at what they are doing to the ag business. My opinion, the illegal grows won't go away until at best 50 states are legal. Lets say the illegal grows do go away at the point of 50 state legalization, with the ensuing land grab how much more weed will be grown along the banks of the Klamath or any small spring/creek that feeds into it that wasn't being grown before legalization? I'm going to guess there will be a lot more, a whole lot more which in turn requires more water... If the rivers are dry who gives a crap if they are organic or not? You don't need to look any further than the Napa/Sonoma Valley's to see how the corporate wine business has contributed to ruining the Steelhead/Salmon rivers along the central coast and i'm not talking about the chemicals, i'm talking about the lack of water to sustain the fish.

The reason growing weed would be different from growing hay apples or berries is because nobody is growing hay apples or berries in large numbers along the Klamath or the Eel or any other coastal river i've fished...The land being bought by corporations in many cases is not currently being used for agriculture, it's kind of like saying, well there's a 5,000 acre apple orchard on this river so lets grow an additional 500,000 acres and expect there to be little impact, it doesn't translate no matter what the crop is. Sure there is currently weed being grown along the Klamath and the surrounding forest but I suspect the total acreage after legalization will be far greater.

Take a look at this article, a 6500 Acre ranch bought up by weed growers who outbid a land conservancy. I doubt the ranch will have used a fraction of the water that the weed growers will or the land conservancy would have.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/science/a...in-7948587.php

My dad lives near the Rogue and said he watched one day as a water truck with no county/state markings backed down a boat ramp and filled up, he asked them what they were doing with the water and they said it was for the hops they were growing.

Doesn't matter to me if it's weed, almonds, hay or grapes, organic or not, if you start growing a crop in an area where it wasn't intended to be grown and the land can't sustain it, then it is what it is nothing more nothing less, legal or illegal doesn't matter to me.