Truckee River Cutthroat Caught between Prosser and Boca

[Reese]

Nothing wrong with a little optimism. After all, we are all fishermen, hope is what we thrive on.

To provide a little information on the steps that Fish and Wildlife are taking:

https://www.fws.gov/lahontannfhc/index.html

Also, there was a pretty interesting podcast on this few months ago with one of the senior biologists working on reintroduction. I don't mean to plug another fly shop, I just thought it was pretty interesting to hear from someone actually working on this everyday.

http://renoflyshop.com/ep031-tim-lou...truckee-river/

[TyV]

So I spoke to a prominent Truckee guide today. He indicated that he had also caught about 4 Pilot peak LCT this spring and early summer in the general vicinity. His exact comment was that plants were being done through out the Truckee river in both CA and NV this year.

Unrelated, he said he also caught several Kokanee and several Mackinaw in the same area...surely dam blow overs from Tahoe this winter.

Not sure what to believe or what will happen. Again, I hope for a system that thrives with the addition rather than any alteratives.

[Morgan]

They have been planting these things all over for quite a few years now.
They don't survive and hold over. Its a complete waste of money.
Ive seen them stocked 14-18" and 6" or so. THey never make it through the winter.
Just tons of tiny pos stocker cutts in the rivers now. Eating up food for the wild fish that do hold over.

[cdevine]

They have been planting these things all over for quite a few years now.
They don't survive and hold over. Its a complete waste of money.
Ive seen them stocked 14-18" and 6" or so. THey never make it through the winter.
Just tons of tiny pos stocker cutts in the rivers now. Eating up food for the wild fish that do hold over.

Morgan, agree with you its a total waste of money and resources. I don't know how much they really eat or do much of anything in regards to hurting the wilds. They rarely make it past the fall and into the winter. NDOW put 30k + in last year and I want to say only a handful showed up in a shocking survey.

How about re-populating some of the fisheries that got hurt by the drought with diploid fish? Hot creek and the East Walker river come to mind. They did this last year on Hot creek but it was when flows were still low and I think most of these fish got eaten by prey. (birds).

[bigfly]

Sorry Ty....
I haven't caught any cuts down there, but since they've planted for several yrs on the 89 stretch between TC and Truckee (the bait fishing section,5 limit per...Brilliant!), and with higher flows...
I would be surprised if I didn't catch one sooner or later....

I think if I was here back before damns...
I would have fought to save the LCT from extiction...and I welcome the habitat restoration, and special waters for them too.
As someone who has spent a diligent 27 yrs learning this water....I think the main stem, it's best left as it is.
Locals mostly agree...one guide here refers to it as "The Pebble beach of rivers". I don't golf, but I get that.
Should we fill in the hazards and shorten the fairways so everyone can score low?
I have told the tale of a freind who kept a journal his first season...tallied it up later....10 hrs per fish.
So....for consumer/recreational style fishers, this is too low....LCT and Diployd fish are easy to catch, so I understand the attraction...
But the serious sticks in the area, will tell many tales of one drift - one fish...the fish are here...you just need to fish A game level.
We have many waters where numbers are possible. ...why not keep one river for fewer and bigger fish for folks who practice/play hard?
I wouldn't still be here, if the T was easy.
And to me, logically, you can increase numbers of fish, and create structure...
But you aren't increasing the food/insect levels?
So....you impact the bugs...and that, is the bottom line....we are already not famous for biblical hatches...
As Ralph has said...there is a natural holding capacity for a river...
Mostly, I think the LCT will be yummy bits for Big BROWNs/Bows....which is good....
For this river to get better we need
A minimum flow..no recreational flows (weekend to weekday), and a syphon to bring water up from lower level of Tahoe..
I won't be waiting for that soon...

Jim

[John Sv]

In my conversations with CAFW which are pretty frequent the intent is not to get a reintroduction to take hold. It is to provide an angling opportunity for LCT. I'm cool with that and don't view it as a waste of money. Stocker bows, stocker cutts, why not stocker cutts? It has been fun to catch a different specie in my home water (Prosser res) this year.
Lotsa types of fishermen, none have a monopoly on the T, and it hardly affects the c and r experience...

[TyV]

Jim, I appreciate all your years and opinion greatly. Change is always scary. I have a degree in Environmental science with a Focus on ecology. I wouldn't advocate for trying to turn back the clock or even argue for reintroduction. The outcome is NEVER known. Rather an educated guess. Again, whatever the powers that be decide to do, I hope it turns out to be for the best.

I am curious why you believe Cutthroat trout are easy to catch? I haven't had that experience fishing in rivers with multiple species including cuttys. I usually have a pretty equal mix of species I have caugh on those rivers. From oregon to Washington to Montana. Heck rivers like the Yakima, rainbows dominate and it's great to occasionally catch a west slope. Just curious what shaped that opinion for you?

I certainly wouldn't want a put and take river in any way. I am one of those that loves the Truckee being tough. When I catch numbers, I feel like it was an accomplishment and I appreciate it a lot more. Much in the way I do when I manage a true toad on the T.

Completely agree on minimum flows and a syphon. Those are and should be a given. I don't see the rec flows being as big of a deal and one that would be much harder to put into place. Sharing rec space and resources in CA is hard. Way too crowded and getting worse by the year.

Will be up again soon. We are overdue. Health is getting much better finally.

[cyama]

It seems most people don't remember when the World Fly Fishing Championship was held on the Truckee river... I think only a few fish were caught by some of the best anglers at the time. Everyone in Cali loves to catch a big brown trout. If you think about it and why I can't figure it out most of these fish are planters on a wild trout water. Who is planting all these fish. Most are planted by the Golden Gate Fly Club by special permission. The rest are planted by NDFW down near Reno. Is the Truckee really a wild trout fishery? I would guess it is close to the East Carson where you can also catch big holdover rainbows and brown trout below Hangmans. Granted all this is good for the locals and the Bay Area who are fishing and guiding the river, but remember some are holdovers and a few are actually wild fish. Will the Lahontans come back? I doubt it the brownies will eat every little and big lahontan they see. If you want to catch a native lahontan go to Pyramid. On certain days they will eat every thing you throw at them....

[bigfly]

It's very late for me...
And I must rise early......
Be asured, I am not a specie-est.
I have a fondness for all critters. ( Except mosquitos...)
Also, I would say, fear is not an emotion I reflect on much....
And I neither enfer or imply any ownership of the Truckee river.
Mearly a humble Gillies opine...although I do sit in the eye of a hurricane of fish reports....and talk to many hundreds of visiters...

My take on fish is an aquired personal tatste. Cuts will offer to take a dry before the others.....I have fished dries at Pyramid...hell, I've caught them on my back cast....
Which doesn't make them bad..just more catchable.......
I have also watched a cagey 26 " cut swim around my streamer.......on the Snake...
There is always a smarter fish that rises to the "near uncatchable"..level.
And that is what tickles my fancy after 47 yrs of fly.....
What I love...is the cult of difficulty...
I like my butt handed to me....I like a finny equal......I treat them like steelhead here....swinging big streamers......industrial nymphing, and and.......the ocassional piggy Bow on a dry..or.... let us not forget a Brown that lurks.....the ones that we hunt like unicorns who kill there own and give me disturbed sleep....(and I try and return the favor..)
All I can figure is those that want to help, don't fish......
It's shocking how often clients get mauled.....happened two days ago....a 3-5 second visit with Walter...
So you want to improve it?

This one of the best fisheries in the west...
And I have a long sad learing curve with people trying to help........a local trib rehab comes to mind.....Which I might call un-asthetic and less fishable....which is not an inprovement.......
Truckee LCT is an experiment that seems unwarranted logically without the dam removal/or fish conveyence installation....it's not a reconnection of the threads, without access to the lakes...
and they are not like they were....out of balance is an understatement......
I'm would hate to see the T "improved,"
I wasn't going to stir the pot..
Just show loyalty publicly before the experiment is without feedback..without public opinion, and no I told you so......
I fear a waste of tax money, and a diminishment of one of the best fisheries on the west coast...........
Or did I already mention that.........
Must get Zz-zzzz....

when I guided in ID. I saw them trying to reconnect the the torn threads of natures web. It has great nobility.
But they do not seem to be over coming the Cut's inability to compete against these introduced speice's...
Not sure how reality will change for us?????

And, the way I heard it....the pros from Dover caught the larger fish of the tour on the T.......And it's tough to drop in and do well here..........the Czechster's I fish with, do double digits with regularity, and you want to help?
I heard the saying when I came..if you can fish the T, you can fish anywhere....
I honestly thought it was locals pride...
I recently heard a fisher who is not working enough or listening, and who started to whine that "he caught fish every where else but here"......which is a nice new variation.......especially when you see the fish porn from here.....


Bigfly says...don't lower the bar, fish better.
Ggggood night.....

Jim

[John Sv]

It seems most people don't remember when the World Fly Fishing Championship was held on the Truckee river... I think only a few fish were caught by some of the best anglers at the time. Everyone in Cali loves to catch a big brown trout. If you think about it and why I can't figure it out most of these fish are planters on a wild trout water. Who is planting all these fish. Most are planted by the Golden Gate Fly Club by special permission. The rest are planted by NDFW down near Reno. Is the Truckee really a wild trout fishery? I would guess it is close to the East Carson where you can also catch big holdover rainbows and brown trout below Hangmans. Granted all this is good for the locals and the Bay Area who are fishing and guiding the river, but remember some are holdovers and a few are actually wild fish. Will the Lahontans come back? I doubt it the brownies will eat every little and big lahontan they see. If you want to catch a native lahontan go to Pyramid. On certain days they will eat every thing you throw at them....

Tough to tell tone of voice in an internet post so heads up this is intended to continue the conversation, not be contrarian....

CADFW Plants the Truckee in CA. They also plant Donner, Prosser ,and Boca, and it is believed these fish stray into the Truckee, likely the origin of the original poster's awesome fish. Flycasters (SF Flycasters) plants triploid rainbows. I have been told that wild trout recruitment in the T is actually pretty low and that many of the fish are naturalized holdovers. But again, if fishermen catch and keep stocker cutts instead of stocker 'bows, does it really affect the wild trout c and r fishery? When I studied trout management in college (a long time ago, as a part of my fisheries management curriculum) the plan of the time was to get stockers in and out of the fishery to AVOID impacts to the wild fishery. Holdovers for the wild trout afficianados were gravy.

Also, Pyramid is awesome, but if they shut off the hatchery for 5 years it is over completely. There is no significant recruitment of wild fish. If the Lower T could have suitable spawning habitat, I think it is a worthy pursuit to create that habitat and have the awesome Pyramid fishery have another lifeline than one hatchery sustaining fish in the lake. One person's opinion tho.