Thomas & Thomas 5wt first impressions

[luckydude]

Hi Jim,I'm well aware that uplining assists loading the rod...my point is that if you can cast you shouldn't need to...uplining means fatter lines that make delivering the fly actually more difficult in the wind (to put it in perspective,I only fish the salt).I also appreciate that you may have clients who benefit from uplining,but IMHO they may be better off getting casting lessons.
Cheers

I think if you cast this T&T you'd change your tune. It's an extremely fast rod, anything less than 35-40 feet of 6 wt line just doesn't load the rod, it's the classic broomstick. It's much closer to a 7wt rod if you want the rod to match the line, maybe 6.5.

I am not a fan of rods like this, if I want to cast a 7wt line then I will get a rod that wants a 7wt line. I kinda want my 5wts to want a 5wt line. It's not all about distance, presentation matters to a lot of spooky trout. If I have to overline the rod to make it work right then it sort of misses the point. I don't want to be casting a 6wt line in pocket water. I'll admit that it's sort of fun to line it with 6wt and see how far I can push it but if I really wanted more distance I'd put a shooting head in there. It's sort of silly to be trying to get a big cast out there with a small line.

Just by contrast, I've got a little Sage Vantage 7.5 ft 3 wt that is properly sized to the line, if you put a 4 wt line in there the rod can't handle it. But it works just fine with 3 wt and has a very pleasant light presentation while still having enough oompf to turn over a small hopper. I love this rod.

[John Sv]

This conversation gets further complicated by all of these overweighted lines. For ex a 5 wt SA GPX is almost 10 grains heavier than a "true" 5 weight. a 5 weight RIO Grand is something like 160 grains which is the middle of a 6. My 7 weight rod throws 250 grains easy peasy...

My 3/4 weight Steffen casts a 3 weight with a fast stroke and a 4 weight with a nice relaxed cast.

I seem to be the opposite as some of you- I like the heavier line in the wind and feel it lays down straight with less punch, as does my fast 5 wt overlined by half a weight ..no?

[Bob G]

In an attempt to keep both sides of the scale fairly equal, I add a vote to Dynaflow's point. While his points are presented in a fairly matter of fact method, there is great wisdom underlying his logic. My point would be to simply appreciate both sides of this line weight issue.

Best, Bob

[Idadon]

I've got to go with Bigfly on this point. You've got the rod so go try to find a line that works with your stroke. No rules say that you have to use a 5wt on a 5wt and you're not likely to be kicked off the river for deviating. Over the past few years I've learned that overlining has its place in fishing and I actually have an antique Fenwick that says 8wt but is pure silk with a 7wt. But that's my stroke, not yours or anyone else's. Advise is to take it as a challenge to conquer that "Broomstick". If eventually it defeats you and becomes another dust catcher list it in classifieds. No harm, no foul!

[dynaflow]

Some good points made in this thread,and certainly finding the "right" line these days can be a challenge when even the oft relied upon AFFTA chart means little in the scheme of things....e.g.I only fish fast action rods in the lighter weights (Clutch Archipelago,NRX,Hardy Sintrix,Winston Boron III Plus) and almost always in the wind because of where I live.All of those rods are great to cast all day,unlike the broomsticks of yesteryear,and while any of them are easily capable of handling uplining I choose not too....your mileage may differ as they say.

[eastfly]

I think if you cast this T&T you'd change your tune. It's an extremely fast rod, anything less than 35-40 feet of 6 wt line just doesn't load the rod, it's the classic broomstick. It's much closer to a 7wt rod if you want the rod to match the line, maybe 6.5.

.

Hi Lucky, I have some experience with these T&T rods and I was thinking. You mentioned this rod is a TU rod? I am not aware of or can I find a TU rod sponsored by T&T however , there is a T&T from the Federation (IFFF) and I know a little about that rod too. It would be exactly what you are describing and it is not the new Avantt but the NS5 (No Sancturay) which was a prototype to the NS II. It is a specialized rod for big rivers and big fish, it really doesn't come to life until after 45' . The distance dudes like this rod. and I found the rod did well with a plus line, even a #6. I am just curious that maybe you have a Federation rod and not a TU or even the TU built on a NS5/NSII blank ? BTW- This prototype as I was told by the guys at T&T was favored to become the NS but another was selected the ownership back than. It is a nice rod for the right application.

Cheers
Paul

[luckydude]

Hi Lucky, I have some experience with these T&T rods and I was thinking. You mentioned this rod is a TU rod? I am not aware of or can I find a TU rod sponsored by T&T however , there is a T&T from the Federation (IFFF) and I know a little about that rod too. It would be exactly what you are describing and it is not the new Avantt but the NS5 (No Sancturay) which was a prototype to the NS II. It is a specialized rod for big rivers and big fish, it really doesn't come to life until after 45' . The distance dudes like this rod. and I found the rod did well with a plus line, even a #6. I am just curious that maybe you have a Federation rod and not a TU or even the TU built on a NS5/NSII blank ? BTW- This prototype as I was told by the guys at T&T was favored to become the NS but another was selected the ownership back than. It is a nice rod for the right application.

Cheers
Paul

Hi Paul,

It's the T&T Avantt, says so on the rod. It also says Trout Unlimited so it's some run they did for TU. The background there is that TU was fund raising and if you gave them a pile of money they sent you a pile of stuff (I'm pretty unhappy with how that was done, for the record, not a fan of TU right now).

As to not coming to life, yeah. This rod is a broom stick until you have about 40 feet out. I'm not an expert caster by any stretch but when I go on guided trips they seem to think I'm OK or a little better than OK compared to the usual clients. For me, this rod works from about 40-60 feet and 60 might be a stretch. I mean line, I'm not including leader (is there a standard for that? When people say they can cast 50 feet does that mean 50 feet plus a 10 foot leader or does the 50 feet include the leader?). It's no fun closer in.

I've got a Sage Z-axis also in 5wt and while it doesn't have the power of the T&T, it is close and it is way more pleasant to use. Sage rods are pretty special to me, they like that little flick and you get a nice tight loop. But in fairness to the T&T rod, the Sage "collapses" sooner than the T&T.

By "collapses" I mean that when I am casting, put more and more line out there, there is a point where the cast just kind of falls apart. I'm sure it's partially my ability but it is also the rod. The collapse is always at the extreme end of how far I can cast.

But it's not all about distance, it's more than that. Can you make a nice soft dry fly presentation? Not with this T&T rod at any distance. Can you use really light tippets? Not with this rod.

To me, this 5wt feels like it is a 5wt in name only, it wants to be a 7wt. I hate this trend in rods. 5wt should be 5wt.