Flouro vs Mono for Steelhead

[JayDubP]

For swinging for Steelhead...is flourocarbon really any better than mono? There are conflicting articles as to if flourocarbon is really significantly less visible to fish, especially in moving water that is not crystal clear.

My problem with flourocarbon is that knot strength is not as good as mono-- not so much when tied, but after casting and fishing a short while... seems to me that fly casting puts a different stress on knots than does bait casting. If I have to use a stronger flourocarbon to compensate for knot failure is 10lb flourocarbon really clearer than an 8lb mono?

I do not have a lot of failure line to line, almost all of the failure using Flourocarbon seems to be line to hook if I use any traditional terminal knots like Clinch Knot, Improved Clinch Knot or Trielene Knot-- so I now use:
1) Lefty Kreg Non Slip Loop knot for line to hook for most trout flies (thanks to John Baiocchi).
2) Shaw Grigsby "Double Pitzen Knot" ("Best Flourocarbon Knot") for larger flies - strongest I have found, but bulky.

Per suggestions from flourocarbon manufacturers, I even use lip balm instead of saliva before I tighten the knots down (use sunscreen lip balm on my lips and rub the line between my lips before tightening the knot)

[Jeff F]

Jay,

For swinging, I use flouro exclusively. The main reason I do is because of the way it casts. For the Klamath, for instance, I use Rio 2X flouro. It is so much stiffer than mono, and to me, it just seems to cast better. It's got a "wire-like" quality to it. So when you're casting long distances and double-hauling, I like that extra stiffness the flouro gives me. And I think it tends to swing the fly more smoothly once it's in the water. I rarely get wind knots or stacked casts using flouro.

What I usually do is put on a new 2X flouro 9-foot leader. Cut it back about a foot or two. Tie on a tippet ring. Then tie on a couple feet of 2x flouro tippet. Some guys just use a straight strand of tippet connected to the fly line, sink tip, or butt section. But I prefer the tapered aspect of the leader coming off the butt section. Seems to cast more smoothly.

As for knots, I haven't noticed a difference between mono and flouro. I use a slip loop knot (can't remember which one it is) and it holds fine. Don't think I've lost any fish due to knot strength.

And one more thing......I don't think steelhead are really leader shy. So I try to get away the heaviest tippet I can. For fall fishing, rivers like the Klamath, and especially the Trinity, are really clear. But I think 2X flouro is fine.

~Jeff

[dude02]

I had similar problems one day with a cheap flouro breaking off at the fly using an improved clinch. No problems with the same knot on mono. Maybe it was a bad day or bad material, but I switched to a uni-knot and have never had a similar problem. I use it for all line to line and line to fly connections. Just spit, and sometimes with a bit of hops mixed in for good measure.

While I don't swing, i do use Rio flouro on the Trinity with no problems.

[JayDubP]

I had similar problems one day with a cheap flouro breaking off at the fly using an improved clinch. No problems with the same knot on mono. Maybe it was a bad day or bad material, but I switched to a uni-knot and have never had a similar problem. I use it for all line to line and line to fly connections. Just spit, and sometimes with a bit of hops mixed in for good measure.

While I don't swing, i do use Rio flouro on the Trinity with no problems.

@dude02: Went to the fly shop and they let me tie a knot with some new Rio Flouro 2X & we compared to the Rio Flouro 2X I have-- even though Flourocarbon should last a long time, there was a huge difference -- so I replaced the 3 diff sizes of Rip Flouro I have and problem with knots breaking seems to be solved. I am sure I have had those spools since Rio first started selling Flouro, so it could be changes in technology rather than age..

I agree that the uni knot is a great knot. This will be my first time using the Shaw Grigsby knot for every fly...

@Jeff F- your point about Flouro swinging straighter is a good one... and a big reason I will be using Flouro for my upcoming Klamath Steelhead trip.

Thanks,

Jim

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

For Swinging flies for Steelhead any fresh, good quality 0X FC or nylon mono material will work.

__________________________________________

The most popular tippet material for the past 50 years for Steelhead is German made Maxima 'Ultragreen' nylon monofilament.

6# for smaller Half-pounder Steelhead
8# for most Fall fishing
10# for bigger Fall fish on bigger Spey rods.

15# for BC Steelhead?


8# Maxima Ultragreen says it is .010" but it is really 0.011" or 0X tippet.

I think 8# Maxima Ultragreen breaks at over 12#.....

.

[Mark Kranhold]

Green Max is all you need for swingin for steel! I will use a short piece of flouro to the fly sometimes when I am swinging smaller soft hackles summer and early fall . Maxima is strong stuff and cheaper than flouro, and yes I agree that steelies aren't leader shy on a swung fly. If there going to chase it there going to eat it. Maxima is my go to winter leader. If you are looking for a nice stiff flouro, seagar is the stuff.

[donkeyhunter007]

dont like fluorocarbon. If your swinging..... another vote for maxima. every time I use somthing else I regret it.
I agree #8 Maxima is like #12 rio tippet material.

[James W]

Fluorocarbon is not a monolithic product.

There's a lot of really bad product being sold because it's very expensive and difficult to produce. The best fluoro does not have knot issues, nor any of the other anecdotal "issues" you hear about.
BUT, it's expensive! There's no getting around this. Seaguar Grand Max is really expensive, but it's the very best by far.
If saving 50c on the tippet you're throwing with your $800 fly rod really is important to you, just buy whatever name brand mono tippet is on the shelf at your local shop.

Oh, by the way, mono takes over 600 years to breakdown, so you're not throwing daisies on the riverbank when you drop a piece of that stuff either.

[Rick J]

Another vote for Maxima - green or clear. Use 8# and at times 6# for summer fall and 10 to 15# for winter depending on water conditions and where I am fishing and potential size of fish - I really don't see a benefit for FC and no downside for Maxima and definitely FC is more expensive. That said I have a good guide friend that really likes FC. So whatever you want as long as you have confidence in what you are using.

[Andy]

Maxima Ultragreen is all you need.