Spearfishing the American River

[Rossflyguy]

Well the salmon with low spawning habitat on the AR I agree. The steelhead they release aren't really even native to this river. There are places those salmon do spawn but when you're standing shoulder to shoulder on their beds it'll be a little tougher to have a native population. Dams play a huge part but Striper don't help either. They're the most aggressive predator in any system now.

[Rossflyguy]

Whattttt, stripers are consistent in numbers........whatttttt......jajajajaja. Talk to the old timers who used to catch several "20 and #30 on a regular outing in the rivers and sfo bay. People make comments with such a gratuity. Stripers as well as steelhead and salmon lived together in harmony.The typical line/lie from the water boys, 'stripers are responsible for the decline of salmon and steelhead".

There's a huge population of Striper in California. There's no hatchery for Striper because they are thriving. Striper don't live in harmony with steelhead and salmon when they devour thousands of smolt. They do more damage than any native fish could. As far as large fish go how many people fish for striper and keep their limit everyday? Human population is much higher than it was 50 yrs ago. Imagine all the fisherman taking fish that don't have the potential to grow.

[Mark V]

Rossfly,
You're wrong. There is no loophole making it ok to possess spear fishing gear on the banks of the American river parkway if it's disassembled. Period.

Last summer when a Sgt Kemp of the Sac Co. Rangers called me back to discuss the Co. ordinance, he said that disassembly of spearfishing gear does not make it legal to possess on the AR Parkway. Said he will cite them just as he would if the person possessed a disassembled 9mm.

Last week I got a call from Sgt Derby with Sac Co rangers, who said that has not changed. He said the same thing about if the weapon is disassembled. They WILL enforce the ordinance, and they will confiscate the spear gear, and he couldn't say how much the fine would be cuz it's determined by the court, but misdem max is 1 yr in jail.

If you break that law and I report you, the Rangers will confiscate your gear and cite you. The court will decide your fine and/or jail time of up to 1yr max for misdemeanor.

It probably won't help your case if you falsely state in court that the law has a built in loophole. : )

You're wrong about a lot of things, and especially about the county ordinance:

9.36.060 Firearms, Air Guns, and Other Weapons.
No person other than peace officers in the discharge of their duties shall use, maintain, possess, fire, or discharge any firearm, air gun, spring gun, bow and arrow, slingshot, or any other weapon potentially dangerous to wildlife or human safety, except in areas, at times, and under conditions designated by the director for such use. A violation of the provisions of this section is a misdemeanor. (SCC 576 § 15, 1983.)

[mogaru]

There's a huge population of Striper in California. There's no hatchery for Striper because they are thriving. Striper don't live in harmony with steelhead and salmon when they devour thousands of smolt. They do more damage than any native fish could. As far as large fish go how many people fish for striper and keep their limit everyday? Human population is much higher than it was 50 yrs ago. Imagine all the fisherman taking fish that don't have the potential to grow.

While stripers are not in danger like salmon or steelhead, their population has declined substantially. Tony or any other fishing guide who fish for stripers regularly could confirm this. Spearfishing in a river is outrageous and should not be allowed ..........of course the water guys thing otherwise. Their objective is killing the big fish to little by little eliminate the stripers.

[STEELIES/26c3]

Citing the best kind of data available (empirical data gathered over nearly 30 years and during 20,000+ hours fishing all over our local river) I could easily blow the 'striped bass equals salmon/steelhead populations' greatest predatory threat... theory out of the water. At least on the AR, the striped bass is far from the salmonids' greatest threat and that's biologically/ecologically speaking (not even considering water diversion as part of the equation/Venn Diagram)...

[STEELIES/26c3]

Rossflyguy

Well the salmon with low spawning habitat on the AR I agree. The steelhead they release aren't really even native to this river. There are places those salmon do spawn but when you're standing shoulder to shoulder on their beds it'll be a little tougher to have a native population. Dams play a huge part but Striper don't help either. They're the most aggressive predator in any system now.

Cormorant, green heron, great blue heron, white egret, cattle egret, great egret, bittern, several tern species, osprey, Heerman's gull, ring billed gull, kingfisher, merganser, bufflehead, goldeneye, Barrow's goldeneye, squawfish, rainbow trout, steelhead, smallmouth and largemouth bass, river otter, California sea lion, pacific lamprey are just a FEW (off the top of my head) of the many predators many of which eat as many or more salmonids during the various stages of their life cycle than stripers do....

[SeanO]

Darian, I like your style.

Not familiar with what went down in the past concerning this issue, but I think we can get some anglers to step up if there is a clear path forward to change the laws. I'm in at least.

Take care,

Rather than endlessly complaining about this to no avail, why not at least try to work with a club/group of clubs/people of like mind who're interested in promoting conservation of Stripers; such as, the California Striped Bass Association. This entity has been around since 1974 and has an established membership. Numbers will count. Here's a quote from the History section of their website:

"....The CSBA is a non-profit organization to preserve, conserve and enhance striped bass while promoting recreational sport fishing, environmental awareness and good fellowship. CSBA is one of the largest and most active fishing clubs in California’s Central Valley."

Here's a link to their website:
http://striper-csba.com/

Seems like a good place to start to gain support to build a proposal to the Fish & Game Commission to change the section of the code making spearfishing in rivers legal.

I'll bet there're other clubs/organizations out there (locally CFFU and GBFF) that might be interested in this effort. Remember, the spearfishing organization made their approach without fanfare or opposition. It won't be the same this time, expect opposition and prepare. Time to test the waters????

[STEELIES/26c3]

http://www.kiene.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png[/IMG] Originally Posted by Darian
Rather than endlessly complaining about this to no avail, why not at least try to work with a club/group of clubs/people of like mind who're interested in promoting conservation of Stripers; such as, the California Striped Bass Association. This entity has been around since 1974 and has an established membership. Numbers will count. Here's a quote from the History section of their website:

"....The CSBA is a non-profit organization to preserve, conserve and enhance striped bass while promoting recreational sport fishing, environmental awareness and good fellowship. CSBA is one of the largest and most active fishing clubs in California’s Central Valley."

Here's a link to their website:
http://striper-csba.com/

Seems like a good place to start to gain support to build a proposal to the Fish & Game Commission to change the section of the code making spearfishing in rivers legal.

I'll bet there're other clubs/organizations out there (locally CFFU and GBFF) that might be interested in this effort. Remember, the spearfishing organization made their approach without fanfare or opposition. It won't be the same this time, expect opposition and prepare. Time to test the waters????

Yah... GOOD LUCK WITH THAT~

CSBA has done a lot of good things for our striped bass, our fishing rights and for conservation and raising awareness of the issues facing our fisheries resources in general so I will not bad-mouth them.

However, they DO ENDORSE spearfishing for stripers as CDFW currently allows.

http://watermensalliance.com/wp-cont...RIPED-BASS.pdf

I REALLY DO NOT LIKE the idea of spearfishing stripers in fresh water, nor even hook and line guys keeping hens over 10-12 lbs. but truth be told, the greatest threat to the striped bass populations and to all inland/anadromous fisheries is and will continue to be... the de-watering of the delta watershed by DWR, Westlands Water District and Metropolitan Water District of Southern California.

Know thy enemy and let it not divide and conquer us~

[Tony Buzolich]

YA-HOOOoooo ! Stay with this Mark and Steelies? (real name would be nice) . Steelies ? You left out the biggest predator of all in our rivers is the PIKE MINNOW aka. SQUAWFISH. Those damn thing eat more little fish than can humanly be imagined ALL YEAR LONG !

You steelhead and trout guys need to go see some of the cleaning stations upriver when a run of anything is on. The water below the stations is black with these things feeding on the guts of whatever is thrown in the water.. I'm talking about the guts of SALMON or STRIPED BASS, or catfish, or ANYTHING . Those squawfish stack up and just wait by the thousands for stuff to get thrown in.

I've never been so aware of a CONSTANT predatory source as the PIKE MINNOW (I'm being polite here), but the conservationists take the damn issue that " It's a NATIVE fish" and ought to be protected. What about MOUNTAIN LIONS ? Are they NATIVE ? Sure they are, and look what's been happening to our DEER population. And the number of sightings and attacks in close proximity to HUMANS ! Sure,,,,, protect those damn squawfish. Striped Bass are the LEAST of our predatory problems.

And, as for those damn SPEARGUN guys, aren't they just another BIGGER predator ? They don't give a shit about saving SALMON, they just want to BRAG about how BIG of a fish they KILLED. I bet most of those big female stripers don't even get eaten,,,, or at least they shouldn't with all the MERCURY they hold in their flesh. Read the back pages of the damn Fish & Game laws -rules book and it will tell how much striped bass to eat, and what size fish shouldn't be EATEN. And this is because of all the MERCURY in those bigger fish. I bet SQUAWFISH (if tested) would have an even higher MERCURY count than striped bass.

So what do these SPEAR GUYS do with these big spawners ? Eat them ? I bet not. I bet they might take a picture and throw the poor dead striper in a dumpster somewhere Sad, kill it for a picture and throw it away. Why not start shooting salmon too ? They'd make BIG easy targets too. (sarcasm here).

And it's NOT just the AMERICAN river we're talking about. SAD, pretty damn SAD.
Tony

[Rossflyguy]

Cormorant, green heron, great blue heron, white egret, cattle egret, great egret, bittern, several tern species, osprey, Heerman's gull, ring billed gull, kingfisher, merganser, bufflehead, goldeneye, Barrow's goldeneye, squawfish, rainbow trout, steelhead, smallmouth and largemouth bass, river otter, California sea lion, pacific lamprey are just a FEW (off the top of my head) of the many predators many of which eat as many or more salmonids during the various stages of their life cycle than stripers do....

If this were true then why trick smolt further down the river to bypass the stripers in the river. Like I said, striper do far more damage than any native predator. Living 100 yrs doesn't mean it's evolved to live with stripers. I also never said Striper were the only factor causing a decline. There are many factors. Striper, not being native, are one of them. PERIOD. There's no argument about that. If there weren't striper there'd be more making out to the ocean. That's a factual statement.