Pilot Peak LCT returned to the Truckee

[John Sv]

A baller at DFW told me the genetics are so altered in our east side rainbow strains that there is not a strain any mo', only a genetic mishmash of Kamloops, McC, and Eagle lake. He also says very many of the T's 'wild fish' are really older holdovers. Recruitment is piss poor in the T, even in a good year. Plus with the fish dumped annually in the upper, Flycaster, and lower ends in most years, it seems plausible to me. (Besides as mentioned he is a baller which in an of itself makes it plausible) A good thing IMO because it demonstrates stockies can 'outgrow' their zombieness. Note: I did not say there are not wild rainbows in the T. A different baller at DFW told me last week that the trend will be to try and stock the fish according to their historic range; on the east side that means LCT. We will see more of that due to a regulation or advisory or opinion or whatever. Not sure what the heck that means for the east side south of Conway Summit since salmonids are not native.

[Paul B.]

The thing that's kept me here all these years........is hot, wild, difficult McCloud strain rainbows...
Wana-be steelhead!!
Not dumb as a stump, fat hybrids. And, pure Cuts (if there are any...) are not exactly challenging.......
So, will we end up with fish anyone can catch.....not quality....just quantity? That should make "the most" people happy.
In ID. because of Cutthroat hybridization, on the s. fork of the Snake, they have no take for Cutties, and a dumpster for all the rainbows you can take. It's going to be that, or the fisheries guys will want to poison the river to get rid of everything that was introduced......but will wack the bugs too.....How are the bug hatches at Davis since the Pike fixes?
I believe in the value of indeginous fisheries, it's noble to want to recreate them where possible.....
Hope that's not in our future, I don't believe we can reset a messed up a Truckee eco-system...or should.
And even if they do rehab the Truckee....you know a "bucket biologist" will just reintroduce bows or browns anyway...
Why not stay with one of the best/hardest fishery on the west coast...
Many of the big bows here show some hybridization already.....
They (the tribe) has been putting them in the T for a few years on the bait section up towards Tahoe City...
The Tribe want folks to eat them, as is their custom too.
The Cuts sit in a school, in a pool until the bait guys are done....5 each please.......get in line please....
Or, they get eaten by big Browns.....
Without Dam removal, the strain is done in any natural realistic way in the main stem.
So the T would become yet another put and take fishery......BEEP BEEP BEEP, goes the truck...
with the stocking schedule posted on-line......
I don't believe we become better as a fisher, catching easy fish.......just another consumer.


Jim

Thank you Jim. Well put

[amoeba]

I wanna see if the pp cutts they tossed in Fallen Leaf Lake grow up to any size and can be caught by fly. I dunno how productive that lake is. It sure is closer to Sacramento tho and less windy than Pyramid. Would be nice to have some more options.

Guess we'll have to wait 3-4+ yrs to find out.

[John Sv]

Do you know what strain went in Echo(s)? DFW told me they are expecting the 4 year olds to be 18" this year. They also are expecting decent holdover pops.

I wanna see if the pp cutts they tossed in Fallen Leaf Lake grow up to any size and can be caught by fly. I dunno how productive that lake is. It sure is closer to Sacramento tho and less windy than Pyramid. Would be nice to have some more options.

Guess we'll have to wait 3-4+ yrs to find out.

[Idadon]

Seems like so many of the decisions F&G makes is based on DOLLARS. trying to undo the damage now is likely impractical for most waters. Rainbows grow good in hatcheries, bait fishermen pay big bucks for licenses to go catch them. Jobs are generated and money is made. The world goes round! My home water, South Fork of the Snake, is a shining example of wasted effort. They actually shock and put chips in RB's now. Some are worth hundreds of dollars. Just cut the fishes head off, attach a provided tag to the head and put the head into a freezer box at the takeout. Maybe in another 100 years they might eradicate the Bows but at what cost?

[John Sv]

It is my understanding that CADFW (not sure about NDOW's stocking reasoning at Crystal Peak) are trying to build a larger constituency for LCT. Something like it used to be that all LCT stocked and not were subject to the LCT's status as threatened on the ESA. Same still applies but now there are wild population recovery fisheries and recreational fisheries. I really welcome that change, but not in the mainstream T. LCT's need more buddies. Plus they taste great! I'd love a Truckee River with an annual run of King Salmon sized LCT, but the river is too contrived now to be able to support that. But I applaud this in lakes and reservoirs with decent tribs. How fun would it be to fish the LCT run!?!

Seems like so many of the decisions F&G makes is based on DOLLARS. trying to undo the damage now is likely impractical for most waters. Rainbows grow good in hatcheries, bait fishermen pay big bucks for licenses to go catch them. Jobs are generated and money is made. The world goes round! My home water, South Fork of the Snake, is a shining example of wasted effort. They actually shock and put chips in RB's now. Some are worth hundreds of dollars. Just cut the fishes head off, attach a provided tag to the head and put the head into a freezer box at the takeout. Maybe in another 100 years they might eradicate the Bows but at what cost?

[bigfly]

I'm not a fisheries biologist....
After reading "The entirely synthetic fish, I noticed the club starting date, and the hatchery starting date, and the railroad connection.......
And heard hints from those involved with the club......
And combined those clues, with my expirience with steelhead behavior, and big wild bows here, and made an inference....I believe Upper Sac. (and tribs) Redband is close....
All I know, is I would like the T to remain the happy river it is.........few places are of this quality and difficulty.....

Jim

[John Sv]

Yo Jim!!!
Wasn't dissing you, just hopefully adding to the conversation!

I should add that my info from DFW isn't just because of an intense desire to hassle them about LCT. I've been working on the stocking allotment for when Webber Lake reverts to a public fishery in 2017. The Land Trust I work for owns the land around Webber. Lotsa contact with DFW for that. State is thinking LCTs due to the new policy, fyi.

[bigfly]

No sweat John....
My comments are from my hip...
I figure my opinion is one of many...
Just wanted to weigh in as well.
Could be an "old guy thing".
But I think common sense should rule....
Not common taste....or trend..

BTW.. there are "new local" fat fish that can go long......
But a few...make a jump to light speed..
And in heavy water, and up-stream...
Not the behavior of recovered "zombie fish" in my opinion, or others doing long term sampling....
It's why I'm here..swinging like they are Steelhead and have been using my Sage ONE 7wt switch......just in case.
(Or a big brown maybe...)
Perhaps if the fisheries guys had to fish'em, not just shock 'em.....it might be open for discussion, not forced..

Jim

[Morgan]

I wanna see if the pp cutts they tossed in Fallen Leaf Lake grow up to any size and can be caught by fly. I dunno how productive that lake is. It sure is closer to Sacramento tho and less windy than Pyramid. Would be nice to have some more options.

Guess we'll have to wait 3-4+ yrs to find out.

From my understanding they have been putting these fish in Fallen leaf for quite a few years now.
Just like Jim stated a few comments up....you can't restart a fishery.
We need to enjoy the fishery for what is has become over time.
The habitat for the cutts is no longer there in fallen leaf either.
Instead of letting it thrive as a fishery it has been doomed by man once again.
Gill netting the lake, putting up fish siene's so that the browns and rainbows can no longer spawn
For what? A fish that is never going to re-establish itself with its once native cutthroat.
Complete and utter bullshit if you ask me.
Just another piece of water that has been ruined by the bio-idiots who are trying to play god for a paycheck.