Red-Truck fly Rod's & reels

[aaron]

You dont have to have a contract to be bullied or threatened with having the line pulled from you. And it has and does happen. Ahem, Simms anyone?

And Im saying the retail shop should be allowed a 30% margin, and are not because the manufacturers are taking everything they can. Standard retail markups should be 30% over cost from manufacturer or distributor. Fly shops are getting high-balled, if you will. Fly shops started trying to shake it up a bit just in time for companies like Sage to let Cabelas have at their line, undercutting the fly shop business. If you want to support your local fly shop you would not buy from Cabelas.

If a retailer is only making 30 points on a Sage rod or Simms waders then they're doin' it wrong.
Never seen Simms bully anyone save for closing an especially vocal account attacking them for selling direct. In fact quite the opposite, incentivizing dealers to carry more of their product and in turn offering them a better profit.

[Walter]

Its called "pay to play," and you took the bait. Between a margin over 30% from the retailer(thanks for confirmation) and the excessive dealer cost(with some other guys repair cost billed into the purchase price of my new rod) its difficult to afford a $700 rod except for the affluent or the addicted. Why not buy three $200 rods that can accomplish basically the same thing? Thats what Im saying. It's also been pushed by manufactures onto independent contractor sales representives that they cannot carry such and such brand if they want to Rep such and such brand. I dont need to name names or slander, whatnot. I'm trying to speak generalized.

Selling direct is another method for the manufacturer to assume what would traditionally be the distributor or retailers profit. And if selling direct undercuts the normal retail price, then it overtly hurts retailers/distributors.

Incentivizing is double speak for bullying, IMO. "We will give you a better cost on our products if you fill your shelves with our items." That leaves no room for other manufactures products.....its corporate bullying. If the manufacturer can afford to give the retailer a lower cost then they should do it. Of course, if it was my company I wouldnt feel that way. But what Im saying is the diversity in fly shops has diminished from this behavior. And its why Ive been inpressed with Kienes over the year as I previously mentioned. But its also why Ive respected how Lelands has chosen to approach the situation as well. And my Red Truck 1953 puts fish up.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Imported fly rods have a 60% to 80% margin for the shops who get them directly from China, Taiwan and Korea.

You have to buy quit a few rods of each size and prepay them to do this.

Most small fly shops can not afford this....

I still think imported rods are a good value for most but be sure that you buy them from a company that you think will be around next season.

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[Walter]

Imported fly rods have a 60% to 80% margin for the shops who get them directly from China, Taiwan and Korea.

You have to buy quit a few rods of each size and prepay them to do this.

Most small fly shops can not afford this....

I still think imported rods are a good value for most but be sure that you buy them from a company that you think will be around next season.

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That percentage is on a smaller manufacturer cost I would think, being out of USA. Putting 60% on a $100 cost from Korea doesnt compare to putting 40% or more on a $500 cost from USA manufacturer(even when manufactured out of USA still for $100!). I'm not advocating buying from overseas, just doing the math. Who is really gouging?

Bill, how can these guys on ebay afford to make a fairly nice complete rod(from and overseas blank) and sell the complete rod for $18?

It's interesting. I could buy 38 of these complete rods for the price of one Sage, Loomis, Etc... At my age I could break one a year for the rest of my fishing career.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Funny how some people just would never buy a top of the line fly rod? Maybe they don't think they deserve one or they are not convinced that these top of the line rods are worth it. It can't totally be economic?

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Shops with their own branded imported fly fishing products like The Fly Shop and Lelands are really doing well because it is high volume and high profit. Do you understand that? Not rocket science.

They probably sell one high end US made rod for every 20 or 30 imported fly rods.

I think it is great because that is what the big companies like Bass Pro and Cabelas are doing.

At Kiene's American Fly Fishing Company we have nice imported fly rods from TFO, Orvis, and Echo.

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I have both....Sage, Orvis and then Redington, Echo and TFO.

I think they are all great.

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We all cast a little different and so if you say a rod is the best then your buddy might cast it and say he doesn't like it at all.

This is a fact so think about that before you make a statement....

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Really top fly casters, like our staff, with take out every 9' #5 line 4 piece fly rod in the price range they are targeting and cast them.

Then they will decide which one they want to buy.

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Some people like slower rods and some like faster.....

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Story #23b

A recently retired vascular surgeon came into our shop by recommendation of some of his friends.

He said he was new to fly fishing and needed a 9' #5 line 4 piece outfit for trout fishing.

One of our staff sold him a nice started outfit for around $200.

Later when he showed up with that outfit to practice with his friends who he was going to New Zealand with and they had a fit.

Needless to say, I got my ass chewed out.

His friends brought him back in to the shop and he kept the starter outfit for a back up on that big trip and bought a new top of the line outfit that was around $1,000.00

So after that I told my staff that not everyone needs a low end imported starter outfit for their first outfit.....

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Story # 112c

A young retired stock broker had just moved to Sacramento.

He came into my shop because a friend recommend he see me.

He told me he went to Montana with friends and had a great first trip for trout.

He said he needed his own tackle and wanted to get a good trout outfit, good waders, boots and a vest.

He said he didn't need any flies because he would get them for the trip at a local fly shop.

He told me he wanted me to pick out what I thought was the best of everything....

It took us about an hour to get everything together, try on waders and boots, find a good vest.

I think he spent around $2,000....

After we were done he said it was nice to find a new hobby that was not very expensive.

That shocked me and stopped me in my tracks.

I said what did he mean?

He said I just bought almost everything I need for trout stream fishing and it was only around $2000.

Well, that 's great...I said.

He said yes, I spend that much a month shooting sporting clays.

And I am headed to the bay area tomorrow to pick up another shot gun that is $3,000.

And I have dozen of guns.

Oh, I understand. thanks and enjoy our inexpensive sport of fly fishing.

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Hunting is way more expensive than fly fishing.

A friend of mine who hunts all over says his friend's wife put her husband on a budget for hunting one year....she said he had to limit his hunting that year to $50,000.

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[goby]

Funny how some people just would never buy a top of the line fly rod? Maybe they don't think they deserve one or they are not convinced that these top of the line rods are worth it. It can't totally be economic?

I will never throw an Asian rod. Life is too short. Fly fishing is my hobby and my passion. My $800 Helios2 is worth every penny I paid for it. My $500 Orvis T3 (which was top of the line when I bought it) has served me well for 10+ years. I'm really not interested in saving money on my rod, reel, or line. I'm interested in having an amazing fly fishing experience every time I go out. Thus, I throw Orvis Rods and Abel, Orvis, Loop reels. If I can get a deal on those top brands, I will.

And I think Bill knows a bit more about the Fly Fishing industry than anyone else here.

[Rossflyguy]

I will never throw an Asian rod. Life is too short. Fly fishing is my hobby and my passion. My $800 Helios2 is worth every penny I paid for it. My $500 Orvis T3 (which was top of the line when I bought it) has served me well for 10+ years. I'm really not interested in saving money on my rod, reel, or line. I'm interested in having an amazing fly fishing experience every time I go out. Thus, I throw Orvis Rods and Abel, Orvis, Loop reels. If I can get a deal on those top brands, I will.

And I think Bill knows a bit more about the Fly Fishing industry than anyone else here.

Aren't Orvis and Loop imported?

[Rossflyguy]

Amen!!! Hey Bill, you found a good rod that you like, congrats!! Given the price point of Redtruck rods, the warranty is a secondary consideration unless you plan on breaking or damaging the rod anytime soon. As to finding parts to build/rebuild a rod, DIY, quality reel seats, grips and guides are still available for those who look for them and if you ever want/need to rebuild that rod thru another person, there're a couple of people in this area who do that line of work.

Warranty is never secondary to price. $300 is still a lot of money to spend on one rod that you're pulling through brush and hiking around rocks through rivers. I'd rather spend the money and buy a rod once than keep upgrading. I buy sage rods because it's made in the US and they repair a broken rod or replace it with an equal rod if it's not available to repair. Plus, you can buy a used safe rod from these fly shops now for the same price as an imported rod and the warranty still applies as long as they weren't registered.

[goby]

Aren't Orvis and Loop imported?

My Orvis rods are made in the US, the Orvis reel made in England, and my Loop is made in Sweden. I didn't say I was anti-import, I said I wouldn't throw Asian rods (or use Asian reels). I have one Asian reel, an Okuma, that was basically free with a St. Croix switch rod I purchased. It sells for about $180, and I absolutely hate it.

[rubio505]

Bill,
I am sorry if this post has offended anyone, whenever possible please visit us out here in Sonoma, I would be more than happy to personally show you guys what we have been up to. We don't plan on taking anyone's job. Our rods are not made in the U.S.A. I will give you guys that but they are made in the same facility where Hardy and Loop manufacture their gear. As for our warranty we like to stay simple, when we sell an outfit we try to include a spare tip, because we know the tip is typically the first to break due to human nature (i.e. tailgate/door closed on rod). If not you can simply replace any tip for any rod for less than 50 bucks. I am truly sorry to offend you Bill and everyone else, we at Leland love getting people taking but not like this.
Thank You and Tight Lines!