Spear Fishers on the American river

[TaylerW]

Never mind...

[winxp_man]

Wow lots of writing in this thread!

As for spear guys or line guys if YOU like eating a bigger fish with toxic garbage in its meat feel free to do so. Me personally I think killing the large breeding animals takes away from future fishing. It's the big ones the make lots of thee babies

I have seen spear and line guys take really big stripper hens and not care about what they are doing to future stocks also wanting to catch even bigger if possible!

To each their own I guess.....

[kabah088]

This thread has been quite entertaining.

I can understand how a diver legally transports his "parts" to the river through park land. I have no issues here.

Prime taco size for striper is 18-26" in my book.

I am more concerned about ethnic fisherman who line the bank during salmon season bringing in tail hooked and snagged fish (no I am not referring to flossing) with no regards of regulations. Also the guys who gut steelhead for the roe leaving the rest of the fish at the river to die.

My favorite rig is the one commonly found at the dam. It consists of you mainline to a large treble hook and then a leader from the hook to a bobber. It is illegally fished in a manner that the bobber sits furthest from the fisherman and the treble hook sags down bellow the surface. When a fish swims over the hook, the fisherman snags the fish in the belly.

Mendo - did you create your profile just for this forum topic? Welcome to the forum and I hope you find all of the fly fishing advice you need here!

[tascaso]

Wow lots of writing in this thread!

As for spear guys or line guys if YOU like eating a bigger fish with toxic garbage in its meat feel free to do so. Me personally I think killing the large breeding animals takes away from future fishing. It's the big ones the make lots of thee babies

I have seen spear and line guys take really big stripper hens and not care about what they are doing to future stocks also wanting to catch even bigger if possible!

To each their own I guess.....

I am with you win_xpman, the amount of dangerous toxins in the larger and small fish in the Valley Rivers is outrageous, you would have to be insane to eat any of them! Its unhealthy enough just to breath the air much less eat the fish.

[Mark V]

Whoa had to sink in a bit, there's some disturbed thoughts from Mendo. And to think he started posting about being worried about spearfishers being victim to physical violence. Actually surprised the spear guys are shy to weigh in, and brag how many & how big stripers they've taken this year and last. Post some pics? You know you can blur faces with Photoshop to protect ID.

The idea that guy is conservation minded seems a sick joke. I don't hate spear guys, just don't agree that 'means of take' has nothing to do with conservation. Think most spear guys who work the American do so to target the monster breeding hens in clear water, where they're most vulnerable and while they're here to breed. That strikes me as unethical because I believe that's going to decimate future generations of stripers all throughout the rivers and delta.

Everyone seen the movie, "Rivers of a Lost Coast"? It's a movie most fishermen love, though it's at times tough to watch. Many, old and very smart guys who fished back in the 50s, 60s and on, said they had no idea--they couldn't have begun to grasp the concept that they could possibly even dent the massive fishery and monumental populations of salmon, steelhead and stripers in the NCal rivers like the Smith. They almost completely destroyed all of them. Didn't know that history before the movie. So, how can some otherwise intelligent guys be oblivious to the fact they we are capable of destroying the population of stripers? Telling other fishermen they need to understand sharing??

Anyone can fantasize that bringing disassembled spear gear to the riverbank is legal, but repeating or re-posting a falsehood doesn't make it true.

If you talk to the Park Rangers, they will tell you that if you bring a disassembled handgun to the A.R. parkway, they will cite you the same ticket on the County ordinance as with a spearfishing rig, whether a gun or pole.

They will tell you this is their policy, and they are definitely enforcing it:
http://www.regionalparks.saccounty.n...on%20Final.pdf

And I'm definitely NOT holier than thou, in fact not the least bit, in any way holy.

[KdPaz]

Growing up in the Sacramento area, I, Myself haven’t been fly fishing on the American River in years but I must say coming from the younger generation, times and laws are changing and we anglers need to except the changes that are being made to our waters. We all have our own opinions and are entitled to them. But just because you’re entitled to your opinion doesn’t mean you need to voice it by using violence or attacking people. If you’re going to voice your opinion as an adult you should be able to voice it respectfully and in a courteous way. Bad mouthing and talking crap about a certain way of fishing isn’t going to get you anywhere, especially when you’re threatening others. Just because they prefer a different way of fishing than you doesn’t make them anymore or any less of person than you. As long as they are respecting the laws then why should it bother you how they are fishing? “Sharkbait” brings up some very valid points. These waters and fish don’t belong to “YOU”, “THEM”, or “I”. We need to learn to share the waters with each other regardless of their preference of fishing style. Not every person who is spear fishing you come across is going to be breaking the laws. Just because you may have come across someone breaking the law doesn’t give you the right to judge every person who is spear fishing that you come across as one to break the laws. There are bad apples in every sport and there is nothing anyone can do about that. All you can really do, honestly, is make sure you’re one of the ones following the laws.


As for spearfishing, it is legal to spearfish in the American River and even near/on the parkway. As long as they are in the water they are legal. It is only illegal for them to be on shore with their spears on the parkway banks. As for asking where they parked their vehicle that really is no one else’s business but their own. You don’t know, there may be places in the parkway where it is possible to walk into the American River without technically trespassing on county parkway land, from private property with river access, perhaps. Or within a public easement along the State Highway 160 and Interstate 80 bridges, those easements exist in the annals of state law partly to protect public fishing rights.

[MendoFish]

Whoa had to sink in a bit, there's some disturbed thoughts from Mendo. And to think he started posting about being worried about spearfishers being victim to physical violence. Actually surprised the spear guys are shy to weigh in, and brag how many & how big stripers they've taken this year and last. Post some pics? You know you can blur faces with Photoshop to protect ID.

The idea that guy is conservation minded seems a sick joke. I don't hate spear guys, just don't agree that 'means of take' has nothing to do with conservation. Think most spear guys who work the American do so to target the monster breeding hens in clear water, where they're most vulnerable and while they're here to breed. That strikes me as unethical because I believe that's going to decimate future generations of stripers all throughout the rivers and delta.

Everyone seen the movie, "Rivers of a Lost Coast"? It's a movie most fishermen love, though it's at times tough to watch. Many, old and very smart guys who fished back in the 50s, 60s and on, said they had no idea--they couldn't have begun to grasp the concept that they could possibly even dent the massive fishery and monumental populations of salmon, steelhead and stripers in the NCal rivers like the Smith. They almost completely destroyed all of them. Didn't know that history before the movie. So, how can some otherwise intelligent guys be oblivious to the fact they we are capable of destroying the population of stripers? Telling other fishermen they need to understand sharing??

Anyone can fantasize that bringing disassembled spear gear to the riverbank is legal, but repeating or re-posting a falsehood doesn't make it true.

If you talk to the Park Rangers, they will tell you that if you bring a disassembled handgun to the A.R. parkway, they will cite you the same ticket on the County ordinance as with a spearfishing rig, whether a gun or pole.

They will tell you this is their policy, and they are definitely enforcing it:
http://www.regionalparks.saccounty.n...on%20Final.pdf

And I'm definitely NOT holier than thou, in fact not the least bit, in any way holy.

That's hilarious. You sound like a 12 year old pouting. Disturbed thoughts? Only disturbing thing here is your attitude, try to distract from it as you may. No one's shy, you are looking to stir up shit. That is clear. Boo hoo, please try again.

It's funny you seem to think you know me and my fishing habits. Who's bragging on big striper? I've never even shot one. Where did I even say i've shot any lmao? However if I did chose to shoot one, you can be damned sure I wouldn't be scared to show my face with a fish I lawfully took. "A sick joke" is only descriptive of your thought process. You keep twisting my words to fit your agenda and make me look bad, when really you look like the fool here. Here are good people trying to civilly work things out and here you are acting like a childish fool. To be honest if a large hen was so easy to plug, I wouldn't be interested in it anyway. I'd rather hunt smaller challenging schoolies.

But why am I explaining this to you, apparently you know me like the back of your hand and all my fishing habits. LOL

A firearm is not a metal pipe. You are comparing apples to oranges. Again, a case has already been won in the regards of how some spears enter, gear returned and no citation. Maybe they like to make you feel better when you call or are just tired of you. I do not need to explain exactly how people enter, because I know you will be rallying everyone you can and on the phone crying and whining to whoever will listen, but you can be assured it's legal. So, learn to share or go cry in the corner alone

Mendo - did you create your profile just for this forum topic? Welcome to the forum and I hope you find all of the fly fishing advice you need here!

Yes, I found this site when someone brought this thread and the issue of being "run over or shot" up. I do however enjoy flyfishing, and have been in Kienes once or twice. All the childish crying and bs aside, I hope I can find some good fly fishing advice here, as it seems like there is a good amount of it

As for spear guys or line guys if YOU like eating a bigger fish with toxic garbage in its meat feel free to do so. Me personally I think killing the large breeding animals takes away from future fishing. It's the big ones the make lots of thee babies .

Contrary to what Mark V apparently knows about me, I have no desire to eat a large striper from anywhere. I could literally spit on the delta from my back door. I've had my fill of eating stripers for a lifetime.

[Mark V]

Nah, I didn't whine or cry, nor do I presume to know how you fish (though did ask you about your size & #s). You did write that most spearfisherman are very conservational.

So now you say you don't target the big hens in clear water when they're here to breed and most vulnerable.... why spearfish on the American? Go ahead and tell us how you fish legally and post pics. Lets see what we're talking about. Promote your 'take method'.

Do you not target the big breeder hens because you agree it's unethical to do that, because that's destroying instead of sharing the resource? Because if you do have one conservationist bone in your body, this argument could be over in a second, and convert to a common interest to protect and grow the population of stripers. (Think you might find a majority of ppl who frequent this forum interested in that)


Re: the county ordinance prohibiting possession of spears on the parkway, here's a post on the latest chat with a Sgt Park Ranger: http://www.kiene.com/forums/showthre...rfishing/page2 and if you read the ordinance, you'll realize it's not about firearms. There was nothing whiny about this Ranger, and they are serious about the ordinance and enforcement.

Next time I talk with the Ranger, I'll ask him if he knows of ANY legal way to possess spearfishing gear on the riverbanks, or to transport from land to American water.

So you can cross your fingers and hope that your mystery method of getting your spear gear in the water can avoid or be immune from Ranger enforcement, and I'll cross my fingers that me and those of us on the other side of this issue can help the Rangers enforce the ordinance.

[MendoFish]

Nah, I didn't whine or cry, nor do I presume to know how you fish (though did ask you about your size & #s). You did write that most spearfisherman are very conservational.

So now you say you don't target the big hens in clear water when they're here to breed and most vulnerable.... why spearfish on the American? Go ahead and tell us how you fish legally and post pics. Lets see what we're talking about. Promote your 'take method'.

Do you not target the big breeder hens because you agree it's unethical to do that, because that's destroying instead of sharing the resource? Because if you do have one conservationist bone in your body, this argument could be over in a second, and convert to a common interest to protect and grow the population of stripers. (Think you might find a majority of ppl who frequent this forum interested in that)


Re: the county ordinance prohibiting possession of spears on the parkway, here's a post on the latest chat with a Sgt Park Ranger: http://www.kiene.com/forums/showthre...rfishing/page2 and if you read the ordinance, you'll realize it's not about firearms.

Next time I talk with the Ranger, I'll ask him if he knows of ANY legal way to possess spearfishing gear on the riverbanks, or to transport from land to American water.

So you can cross your fingers and hope that your mystery method of getting your spear gear in the water can avoid or be immune from Ranger enforcement, and I'll cross my fingers that me and those of us on the other side of this issue can help the Rangers enforce the ordinance.

I did write most are. I did not say I am the spokesperson for preservation or conservation. I do what I can when I can to help and take what I feel is fair and not harmful. I don't kill everything in my path, I select what I want.

I did not say I will never shoot a big SB. I was addressing the fact you simply seemed to be assuming that is why I dive there and what I target and will be "annihilating them." If I choose to take one, I will, and I will have every right to do so as would any bank HnL guy. If I choose to stick to a 18-20" schoolie or two, or none, then that's what I will do. The ethics and moralities of it are that of my business, not yours. You can have your opinion, but that is all it is. Your opinion. I may never go back to spear again. But if I do, i'm damn sure not going to tolerate threats or being harassed by someone trying to trample my freedom. I could give two damns if you kept quiet on the river and voiced your opinions and tried to have it made illegal again if you kept it in the right place such as board meetings. It's your ridiculous attitude, misguided anger and harassment here and on the water that I can't stand more than actually being able to spear a damned fish.

You sure want those pics and numbers. Why so anxious I wonder? Couldn't be for ill intent, i'm sure..... So, stripers don't run yearly and breed huh? Do they magically stop at the line where the American meets the Sacramento? You kept making it sound like there are limited numbers in the river that can never be replaced.

Oh I read your cute little post and got a giggle. Silly me, I was under the impression rangers enforced laws not created them. If he does know of a way, please share. We could use some more and his OPINION or IDEA might help. Thanks.

[Mark V]

Never have and never will in any way threaten or harass or trample your freedom. I will help the Rangers enforce the law, to the goal of protecting more stripers. Promise I have no ill intent towards you personally.

Check out this movie, I'd bet $100 every fisherman will find it fascinating: http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title...andard_edition


No, stripers don't stop where the rivers confluence, and they do breed yearly, but several factors like water levels, pesticides, pumps, fishing pressure, agribusiness politics & money are working against the survival of the population. If you watch the movie Rivers of a Lost Coast, you'll learn the history of other NCal rivers, and be enthralled to see how incredible the populations of salmon, steelhead and stripers were in those other rivers before the onslaught. Yes, it is possible the striper population in the American could be mostly wiped out.

This is not a good sign; check out the latest DFG study on Striper populations: http://www.kiene.com/forums/showthre...d-Bass-Tagging