Guide Rate

[TyV]

Cyama, let's just say your number of 180 days year is closer. @350/day...that's 63k/year. @$375/day...that's $67.5k/year. For working less than 1/2 the days of the year. I bet 80+% of people in this country would sign up for that type of income, work and time off per year. As I said, I am NOT picking on fishing guides. Simply that anyone who makes that type of income shouldn't expect to be tipped...irregardless of what their job may be. I will say this, I wouldn't ever feel obliged to tip anyone that makes that kind of money. Now, If I feel like a fishing trip or any other service provided was beyond expectations...I would definitely consider tipping. I would just say that when I pay that amount of money for that type of service, I believe I am paying for outstanding service in the rate. If I get that service, I believe I got what I paid for. If I don't, then I wouldn't book that service again. Either way, most of the time...I don't think about a gratuity being appropriate.

[troutless]

IF they work 20 days a month(less than a FT employee at a "normal" job) That is $7k/month and $84k/year.... They are being paid extremely well...

Don't forget : lunches, gas, leaders, flies, rods the clients break, self-employment tax, sunk capital in boats/trailers/trucks, and, they are not getting retirement/medical benefits many "normal" jobs provide. Particularly given, AFAIK, very few work 240 days a year, net compensation is much less then $84k, maybe comparable to a "normal" job paying $60k/yr. Whether that qualifies as 'paid extremely well' I think is a matter of perspective and the local cost of living. Better than flipping burgers but nothing like what a well-educated professional would bring in.

[Randy Lee]

Note to guides. Might think twice about taking Fish_On as a client. Just saying. The "tip" of the ice berg only gets worse the deeper you go.
Cheers, Randy Lee

[NCL]

As a general rule I try to tip at least 20% but there are a couple of conditions that sometimes I go below that amount. If the guide is the owner operator of the service then I usually tip less than the 20% because I figure the guide has built in the aforementioned costs into his fee and the tip is more of an expression of "thank you". If the guide is booked through a shop then I usually always go the 20% unless it is the odd occasion that I book the trip by myself. I recently went on a guided trip that was due to a last minute cancellation and no one I knew could or would go. I had one of the most outstanding trips I have ever been on but due to the cost of the trip I was not able to tip as much as I normally would. With all this said I have never had an occasion where I felt the tip was enough but not being rich and on a tight fishing budget I give what I can.

[JasonB]

Cyama, let's just say your number of 180 days year is closer. @350/day...that's 63k/year. @$375/day...that's $67.5k/year. For working less than 1/2 the days of the year. I bet 80+% of people in this country would sign up for that type of income, work and time off per year. As I said, I am NOT picking on fishing guides. Simply that anyone who makes that type of income shouldn't expect to be tipped...irregardless of what their job may be. I will say this, I wouldn't ever feel obliged to tip anyone that makes that kind of money. Now, If I feel like a fishing trip or any other service provided was beyond expectations...I would definitely consider tipping. I would just say that when I pay that amount of money for that type of service, I believe I am paying for outstanding service in the rate. If I get that service, I believe I got what I paid for. If I don't, then I wouldn't book that service again. Either way, most of the time...I don't think about a gratuity being appropriate.

If it's about how much money they make that affects your thoughts on this take a closer look at opperating expenses; they eat up a huge chunk of that daily rate. Between gear, gas, vehicle, insurance, permits, parking passes, and (depending where) a gauntlet of various agencies. For the school I work for, off the top of my head we have to pay fees to: BLM, El Dorado county, Sacramento county, State parks, Forest service, and I'm forgetting a couple of biggies still...Then there are some of the specific operations requirements that we need to meet at various locations in order to utilize them, some of which have made it very costly to flat out cost prohibitive to even offer those options. Not sure if that last one effects many fishing guides, but I would suspect that in some places it might; there are probably other regulatory issues that affect their bottom line as well. I think you might be surprised to see just how much is actually left over; it's kind of insane really.

For me personally it's kind of irrelevant how much they make or not though, the very few times I've shared a guide with my Dad we have been pleased to extremely pleased with the knowledge, help, service, and experience we got. As I said, the tip is a means to communicate the appreciation (for me); and we tipped accordingly to those hard working and personable guides. I think there will always be a pretty big difference of thoughts on this matter, so go with your gut. Personally I would hate have great day with an awesome guide, and then have an ending to the day that left a bit of a sour feeling by stiffing them on the tip.
JB

[johnsquires]

As with most issues in life, generalizations fall short, in my opinion.

I know there are guides in the Keys and elsewhere who are charging upwards of $500 a day and are doing very well -- in fact, are next to impossible to book.
I've had several guides who are barely making it, sharing living quarters with other guides.
The majority of restaurant wait staff are making minimum wage, but those in high-end restaurants do very well.

I have a friend who I literally follow out of a restaurant and put more of a tip down on top of his because he's still tipping like it's 1960.

I recently had my most challenging client ever. It would take a chapter in a book to explain all the ways in which he was a challenge. And while his acquaintance on the same trip, receiving the same service, left a sizeable tip, Mr. Challenge left nothing, said nothing, no thanks you, no goodbye. So, I'm sorry, but my experience has been it's more about personality, approach to life, than whether you believe someone is already being compensated sufficiently without a tip.

[Charlie S]

Most folks only see the top line on guide rates. Most of the guides I have fished with have been very professional, caring and educational. They have done their best to put me on fish...results don't matter. But if I am paying a guide $350-$450 for a day's fishing I also have to figure what it is costing the guide. Fuel, food, flies, insurance, guide license, wear and tear on equipment, and other costs do reduce the "take home" amount a guide realizes. If a guide has done what he or she is paid to do I would consider 20-25% to be reasonable. It is not an easy avocation. I would challenge anyone here who has not guided to spend, not day - that's too easy, but a month guiding, dealing with difficult conditions and clients, to say that guides are over paid. Additionally, positive feed back on public forums such as this is appreciated and of value to every guide. Guides that don't fulfill their obligations need not be addressed here as they should not be around long.

[Rick J]

I generally tip $50 but that is when I am fishing with a friend so the overall tip for the day is $100. But really the only guides I go with I have been with for the last 10 years or more and consider them more friends than guides

[cdevine]

What I've learned is there are a lot of "A" holes in life and unfortunately some end up in the boat as either a client or guide. But most people are good at least I would like to think. I tip around $80-100 pretty much no matter what. But with the internet today and social media its pretty easy to do research on guides that are recommended and those who aren't. Personally I've never had a bad experience. But I'm a pretty easy going person and just happy to be on the river in the first place.

As for money, you don't go into guiding to get rich. I would think that a good marriage economically would be a spouse who has a job with insurance and benefits. But its a passion occupation and those that can make it I tip my hat to you.

[Troutstalker55B]

What I've learned is there are a lot of "A" holes in life and unfortunately some end up in the boat as either a client or guide. But most people are good at least I would like to think. I tip around $80-100 pretty much no matter what. But with the internet today and social media its pretty easy to do research on guides that are recommended and those who aren't. Personally I've never had a bad experience. But I'm a pretty easy going person and just happy to be on the river in the first place.

As for money, you don't go into guiding to get rich. I would think that a good marriage economically would be a spouse who has a job with insurance and benefits. But its a passion occupation and those that can make it I tip my hat to you.

Chris,

Your last paragraph is what it's all about. This is my passion, and a legacy handed down from my father. I'm here to educate, share, and enjoy others company on the water. If I was a millionaire I would still guide, do presentations, and write. This is why the great creator put me on this earth. There is so much that goes into a being a successful guide, not just costs, but time. It's a 24/7 job. The feeling I get from providing my guests with a memorable day on the water, and the appreciation in their eyes and words means everything to me. Very moving. We are all so blessed to be able to fly fish, it's more than a sport, it's an awesome life. - J