Combat on American River

[Mike O]

DFG Regs describe snagging at:

"
(c) It is unlawful to kill, or retain in possession any fish which has not voluntarily taken the bait or artificial lure in its mouth. Any fish not taken pursuant to these regulations, shall be released immediately back into the water." (emphasis added)

so a pegged bead, made to have the hook outside the mouth...is it a snagged fish, or not?

[Darian]

In California, pegged beads with a short trailer that is designed to hook fish outside the mouth are not described as illegal in the regs. Here, as in the case of the other mentioned rigs, it might be seen to be illegal to use as the intent of that type of rig is to hook up outside the mouth. Same problem as before, intent. I suppose a warden could observe someone using these rigs over a period of time and if all fish hooked were snagged, he/she would see it as a violation and issue a citation. I suspect that the reason DGW hasn't tried to declare these rigs as illegal is there might be too many problems in describing every type of rig or proving a violation has occurred.

So, in answer to your question, it seems to depend on whether the fish was actually hooked inside or outside of the mouth. Some of those hook-ups probably would be inside the mouth. This type of rig (pegged beads) has been described/discussed in other, earlier threads.

[Jed Peters]

You dont know what you are talking about. If you want to line, floss, or snag you can do it with whatever tackle you like. It doesnt have to be a long leader.

You spey guys line with sink tips all the time too, with your six foot leaders.

What what you say when you dont know what you are talking about.


And if you want to stop those guys go drop the skeleton of a box spring mattress with lead dumbell weights, right in the bucket.

Game over!!!

As caustic as Walter might be, the guy has a point....This happens A LOT with the "Spey" guys, both on salmon and spawning steelhead. I've seen it personally.

[Mike O]

In California, pegged beads with a short trailer that is designed to hook fish outside the mouth are not described as illegal in the regs. Here, as in the case of the other mentioned rigs, it might be seen to be illegal to use as the intent of that type of rig is to hook up outside the mouth. Same problem as before, intent. I suppose a warden could observe someone using these rigs over a period of time and if all fish hooked were snagged, he/she would see it as a violation and issue a citation. I suspect that the reason DGW hasn't tried to declare these rigs as illegal is there might be too many problems in describing every type of rig or proving a violation has occurred.

So, in answer to your question, it seems to depend on whether the fish was actually hooked inside or outside of the mouth. Some of those hook-ups probably would be inside the mouth. This type of rig (pegged beads) has been described/discussed in other, earlier threads.

I would think, that if game warden walked up and saw you land a fish which was hooked inside out, pegged bead or no, and you didn't release it, then it would be ticket-time.

[Darian]

Mike,.... You asked in response to jbirds post about pegged beads: "so a pegged bead, made to have the hook outside the mouth...is it a snagged fish, or not?" The question appears to ask about whether the fish was snagged while using pegged beads and the answer is yes. But, since the rig is not defined as illegal, whether the rig a fish is snagged or not doesn't seem to be the issue. If the fish is released, not kept, it doesn't sound like a violation.

If I was a warden and I observed a person using one of the rigs we've been discussing who hooked a fish and brought it in only to discover that it was hooked outside the mouth and then promptly releaseed, did I observe a violation??? In that instance, I don't think so. On the other hand, if the person kept the fish, I have observed a violation and I'd issue a citation (confiscate the fish, the gear and give the guy a wedgie ). Maybe this is/was why wardens rarely got involved in enforcement activities above the Hazel Avenue bridge?? The "long leader" rig was frequently used up there with predictable results. When wardens did go up there, I was never able to see what they actually issued citations for from where I was standing. May've been oversized hooks or some other banned type of gear....

Of course there's always the caveat that I'm not a warden and they might see it differently.

[Mike R]

The pegged bear argument has been hashed out annually...right about...now. Comparing flossers to guys pegging beads is idiotic. They share no similarity at all.

[Jeff Putnam]

I've been swinging for steelhead for over 30 years and fishing spey rods for almost 17. When done correctly you dont snag steelhead or salmon... only if you fish on or near the redds. Swinging flies is the best way to experience real fly fishing so leave spawning areas alone (upper rivers near dams), learn how to read water and leave spawning fish alone! Also, salmon have migrated so far from the ocean to spawn in the American so lets get over our egos and leave them alone... although I'm sure gear fishermen are right "they sure do smoke well". Really? After 48 hours out of the salt salmon begin to loose their fat and their organs shrink as they use the nutrients for energy and to live. Fish for the grab and when you dont catch anything realize that you chose to "fish" and not "catch". Release all fish so we have something to do in the future. JP

[Walter]

you know where this threads goin when Walter shows up. LOL

Yeah back to reality. Jerk.



Fishing tackle doesnt line and snag fish. People line and snag fish.

[winxp_man]

I've been swinging for steelhead for over 30 years and fishing spey rods for almost 17. When done correctly you dont snag steelhead or salmon... only if you fish on or near the redds. Swinging flies is the best way to experience real fly fishing so leave spawning areas alone (upper rivers near dams), learn how to read water and leave spawning fish alone! Also, salmon have migrated so far from the ocean to spawn in the American so lets get over our egos and leave them alone... although I'm sure gear fishermen are right "they sure do smoke well". Really? After 48 hours out of the salt salmon begin to loose their fat and their organs shrink as they use the nutrients for energy and to live. Fish for the grab and when you dont catch anything realize that you chose to "fish" and not "catch". Release all fish so we have something to do in the future. JP

Jeff well said! 100% agree!

[Walter]

A hook moving through water with a bunch of fish is bound to both legally hook fish as well as floss an snag.

It's the intent of the fisherman and their behavior WITH the tackle that tells you whats going to happen, repeatedly.


DFW has rejected proposed tackle reg changes WE Californians have proposed. Oregon and Washington have specific regs designed to address intentional overt illegal hooking of fish.

DFW is too busy justifying their annual budget by riding with the feds, busting dope grows because of their omnipotent ability to violate the 4th amendment. Thats how they want to spend their time.