No Trespassing....

[Jeff F]

I got cited for "trespassing" on the MF American a while back. My second run-in with that shotgun-toting tool who has the mining club / fishing club down below Oxbow. I was in the middle of the river fishing (after the daily pulse flows, so the water was low). He said he owns the bedrock under the river and that I was trespassing. High-water mark arguments do not work with him. So, he calls his buddy, the local deputy, and I'm cited. He never showed up in court and the case was thrown out.

I discussed this issue with the late Bill Carnazzo back then and was told that this guy claims he has a deed from the 1880's or something that gives him ownership of the river down there. Bill had many run-ins with him too. To this day, I don't think this issue has been resolved. So just a word of warning.....if you go fish below Oxbow. This guy will point his gun at you until you leave or the sheriff gets there.

[neil]

Mike, thanks so much for that story. Your description of plying the waters 'owned' by EBMUD brought back many fond memories of my own, albiet 40 years after yours.

Redwood Creek through Canyon always had nice pocket water loaded with trout. I remember pulling one out that had a huge bite out of his back from a racoon or some sort of critter.

Bear Creek above San Pablo Dam reservoir always had epic winter fishing. I seem to recall fishing on Thanksgiving and/or Christmas, to lessen our chances of getting caught. Always conventional gear, as this was 20 years before I touched a fly rod. We would wade the creek until we were on the verge of hypothermia, then run back to the car to warm up, and repeat.

Anyway, lots of fond fishing memories, made all the sweeter because it was illegal.

I was thinkin' that I'd post a story about my trespassin' misspent youth, then the thread kinda' went south (for me anyway) until Mems jogged my memory with his remark about watermelons... One of my fondest memories is from back in the day when automobiles had external bumpers and fenders. One could place their feet on the front bumper and sit in the "valley" between the fender and the hood in relative "safety". This was the key to our watermelon heists!
One of "our" summer efforts was to get set up by two of us sittin' in the "valley" on each side of the hood as we would sit alongside the hiway over the Altimont Pass between Tracy and Livermore and wait for a watermelon truck makin' a delivery over the hill to the bay area.

Those old farm trucks were pretty slow goin' over the pass because they were probably overloaded with as much as they could carry.. The driver would creep up behind the truck and one of us would climb up on the tail rack while the other would grab the watermelon that was handed to him which he would set it in the "valley" while another was being grabbed. We always stopped at two. We had infinite trust in whoever was driving at the time (it was part of the "code" that we would all take turns, sorta' spread the risk, so to speak!) As Mems Grandad said..them watermelons sure tasted good!

Well that story told, I guess I might as well tell my trespassin' story too! It took place on public utility property which made it OK in our book because "we" being part of the public, owned it!

Going back to when the Bay area was first settled there were many creeks that drained into the Bay that were home to steelhead runs. Back in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries a few of them were dammed as water supply for the burgeoning cities of Oakland, Berkeley and Richmond. When the two largest creeks, San Pablo and San Leandro Creeks were dammed remnant populations of steelhead became "landlocked" behind the Dams where they have survived since (as far As I know anyway, I think they still have viewing platforms in Oakland's Redwood Park for watching the spawners that migrate up out of Upper San Leandro Resevoir)
As a kid I was a virtual David Duncan ( as in the first chapter of him prowling the the water east of Portland in his book "My Story As Told by Water") At the tender age of 6 or 7 I "discovered" steelhead smolts in Redwood Creek while my folks were visiting friends that lived in Redwood Canyon. That discovery created an almost fanatical passion in me for such a little kid. From that day on I climbed, crawled, creeped, plowed and waded, through brush, Blackberry vines, Nettles and Greasewood lookin' for fish in most of the East Bay Creeks.
The older I got the further I went and this is where my trespassin' story starts. Somewhere back in the 20's or so, the water supply dams and all the country that drained into them became property of the newly formed East Bay Municipal Utility District or as commonly known to folks thereabout, East Bay MUD. Because all the land was domestic watershed it was off limits to us mere mortals, signs were everywhere.. NO TRESPASSING!

Needless to say that as kid, knowing those lands and their creeks were full of "trout" as we called 'em then, those signs became part of a cat and mouse game between a couple of my closest friends and I and EBMUD. Most of the 1950's we spent fishin' those creeks and hidin' in the brush from the EBMUD patrolman. We caught many "trout" out of those creeks. The best fish came from upper San Leandro Creek above the Canyon Store or Bear Creek (now under Briones Reservoir) and upper San Pablo Creek at what used to be the "Orinda Crossroads". Yes, back in those days the idea was to bring home somethin' to eat and that we did!
Some of my life's best memories are of cold, foggy and wet February days fishin' those creeks full of spawners!
I can still smell the wet brush, Bay Laurel Trees (unique pungent odor) Redwood trees and oak leaf mold!
While I doubt things are still the same as they were, I have to believe that those fish still exist in some of those protected wild places that exist behind those NO TRESPASSING signs that were my ultimate challenge back then!!

Mike

[jbird]

This is a really cool thread! Keep it going! I have too many hooligan stories to keep them all straight!

[Jeff F]

Is the Fishing any good down there... I hear they have quite a few menbers.. Some came into sportsmans when I worked there.. Most appeared to be screened to have not much Fly Fishing under their belt....

Frank, he's got some sweet water down there, and the fishing is great. There were some guys from the old NCFFB who were members and they said it's damn good. From what I heard, he charges like $100/yr or something to join. Not sure if that is still going on though.

[Frank Alessio]

Jeff..

I might be wrong but I believe one of the members that I picked out flys for said it was $1000.00 per year and there was a cap on the number of Members...I know some nice Browns come out of the area near there... I also heard of a non-member that floats right through it fishing on a regular basis...

Thanks Frank

[BenFishin]

I got cited for "trespassing" on the MF American a while back. My second run-in with that shotgun-toting tool who has the mining club / fishing club down below Oxbow. I was in the middle of the river fishing (after the daily pulse flows, so the water was low). He said he owns the bedrock under the river and that I was trespassing. High-water mark arguments do not work with him. So, he calls his buddy, the local deputy, and I'm cited. He never showed up in court and the case was thrown out.

I discussed this issue with the late Bill Carnazzo back then and was told that this guy claims he has a deed from the 1880's or something that gives him ownership of the river down there. Bill had many run-ins with him too. To this day, I don't think this issue has been resolved. So just a word of warning.....if you go fish below Oxbow. This guy will point his gun at you until you leave or the sheriff gets there.

HI Jeff, had to be a bit more than a while back. I took over the property for a year back in '07 so it had to be at least a year before that. The fella you probably ran into was Dennis Raff and I met him in a similar fashion....this was back in '95. I eventually looked him up and became a member. I figured with security that good, I needed to see what was downstream. And fishing was good....

We had some really good times down there when it was a gold mining club. I was one of a only a couple fisherman in the group. Every once in a awile, we'd charter a helicopter and have them drop us off downstream and we'd fish our way back

The county eventually kicked out the gold mining club for building permanant structures and having year round tentants. But the breaking point is when the clampers held their annual event and someone got drunk, they start rock climbing and had a major fall requiring an helicopter evac. The lid was blown off the place at that point with emergency response/public safety issues being realized and called attention to.

The property sat idle for a year in which I became somewhat of a caretaker while the owner tried to decide what to do with the property. We did some surveys, cleaned up the place and restored mcuh of it back to it's natural settings. We also did a lot of fishing

All the structures where removed. Here's a link to some interesting info to get in idea what it looked like before all that work was done. http://goldprospectingwithminerreb.w...can-river.html

After that Tom Bartos and I ran the property as co-tentants for a period of a year. He took it over full time back in 2009 and has done a fantastic job at managing the property as a fly fishing only club every since.
http://www.horseshoebarpreserve.com/...merican-river/

Every year Tom host's wounded warrior event down at the property which as been really succesful

Sorry to get sidetracked on the thread but thought I'd chime in

[JoeFin]

I was in the middle of the river fishing (after the daily pulse flows, so the water was low). He said he owns the bedrock under the river and that I was trespassing. High-water mark arguments do not work with him. So, he calls his buddy, the local deputy, and I'm cited. He never showed up in court and the case was thrown out.

You bet he doesn't show up in court

The Federal Laws that protect navigation/access of these rivers predates and supersedes property laws. Check the link I posted. there is a National Organization with Pro Bono Attorneys that defends these access rights and your buddy Deputy Barny Phife knew it

[Jeff F]

HI Jeff, had to be a bit more than a while back. I took over the property for a year back in '07 so it had to be at least a year before that. The fella you probably ran into was Dennis Raff and I met him in a similar fashion....this was back in '95. I eventually looked him up and became a member. I figured with security that good, I needed to see what was downstream. And fishing was good....

We had some really good times down there when it was a gold mining club. I was one of a only a couple fisherman in the group. Every once in a awile, we'd charter a helicopter and have them drop us off downstream and we'd fish our way back

The county eventually kicked out the gold mining club for building permanant structures and having year round tentants. But the breaking point is when the clampers held their annual event and someone got drunk, they start rock climbing and had a major fall requiring an helicopter evac. The lid was blown off the place at that point with emergency response/public safety issues being realized and called attention to.

The property sat idle for a year in which I became somewhat of a caretaker while the owner tried to decide what to do with the property. We did some surveys, cleaned up the place and restored mcuh of it back to it's natural settings. We also did a lot of fishing

All the structures where removed. Here's a link to some interesting info to get in idea what it looked like before all that work was done. http://goldprospectingwithminerreb.w...can-river.html

After that Tom Bartos and I ran the property as co-tentants for a period of a year. He took it over full time back in 2009 and has done a fantastic job at managing the property as a fly fishing only club every since.
http://www.horseshoebarpreserve.com/...merican-river/

Every year Tom host's wounded warrior event down at the property which as been really succesful

Sorry to get sidetracked on the thread but thought I'd chime in

Aaaah....Hey Ben. I remember you from the NCFFB. Good to hear from you. And yeah.....I do recall they had some use permit issues down there, now that you mention it. Glad to hear about the property. Good on you!

So....just curious......did the guy's deed actually say he owned the river bottom?

[BenFishin]

So....just curious......did the guy's deed actually say he owned the river bottom?

yes, as I recall....the property which is over 750 acres, encompases both sides of the river for a couple miles with the exception of a small land locked parcel on the southeast side

[DFrink]

FYI, lot's of littoral owners deeds cover the bed of rivers. It doesn't mean they own it, just means whomever prepared the deed either thought they owned it, hoped this would give them some evidence of ownership, or didn't know what they were doing. The State was granted all of the submerged lands of navigable waterways when it was accepted into the union in 1850. You won't find a "list" of what is considered a navigable waterway. It takes hours, days, and even lifetimes to try and prove ownership rights on some of the more complicated water bodies in our State. Often times if in dispute either an agreement is reached between the State and private upland owners or the courts must get involved.