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Thread: Report on the UC Davis Predation Science Workshop 7-22-23-2013

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    Default Report on the UC Davis Predation Science Workshop 7-22-23-2013

    Funded by Striperfest, John Beuttler and David Ostrach attended the CDFW/NOAA Marine Fisheries work shop on the state of predation science with regard to Bay/Delta tributaries and their salmonids. Here is John's report:

    David Ostrach and I attended both days of the Predation Workshop. Overall, we found the format to inform the Science Panel regarding predation in the estuary on salmonids (salmon and steelhead) to be a very trying and an exclusive process.

    David and I were able to make comments during the public comment period at the end of the Workshop each day. We were each allocated 3 minutes to provide our statements. Except for the public comments, those who attended were not permitted to ask questions of the Science Panel or those who presented information to the Panel.

    Over all, this two day “Predation Science Workshop” was a very intense process that was tightly controlled by CDFW and the Delta Science Panel. CDFW and the Delta Science Panel set the agenda and provided all the documents to the Panel by the authors who used power point presentations to summarize their “scientific studies and models”.

    David and I were very displeased that some of these documents had not been peer reviewed. Some of them were predation studies that had been conducted by consultants hired by the State Water Contractors.

    David’s statement to the Panel on the first day made it clear that if the work was not peer reviewed, it wasn’t science and its integrity could not be relied upon.

    It was also disconcerting to discover during the morning of the first Workshop that the documents we submitted, on the critical background regarding legal, political, and administrative efforts to destroy the striped bass fishery to the Panel were not given to them. This was contrary to our request and the statements made by UC Davis representatives.

    We found out later that the Chairman of the Delta Science Panel had screened all the documents for the panel and our documents did not make the cut.

    At the end of the first day, David and I were permitted to provide statements to the Panel. David spoke to the necessity for the Panel to review and make use of only peer reviewed science. He noted that nearly a third of the documents submitted for review were not peer reviewed and should not be considered science. During my statement I informed the committee that there was a tremendous lack of funding to address the causative factors responsible for the decline of the estuary’s ecosystem and fisheries. I asked them to consider if our government’s extremely limited fiscal resources would be better spent on trying to address the critical problems that have clearly degraded the estuary than spending such funds on additional predation studies when many knowledgeable scientists had found predation to be a low level stressor on salmonids and the estuary’s ecology.

    During the second day of the Workshop the panel Chairman provided an outline of the science process they would use during their evaluation of the predation information to arrive at a conclusion. He then announced that the panel had reached a “very preliminary perspective on the predation subject”. Highly summarized, he noted that:

    -- Available information and data painted a very contradictory picture which they need to review in far more detail to better understand.

    -- Most of the studies they had reviewed on predation and the fisheries of the estuary were not good science and critical aspects such as population abundance for salmonids and predators had not been done scientifically.

    -- Most of the predation information was done on hatchery tagged salmon smolts which were not the same as wild fish.

    He stressed that some of the tagged smolts used in the studies were not properly evaluated to determine the impacts of being tagged on their survivability. It appeared at least some of them were tagged with materials that were too heavy for the small smolts and this lead to physical stress that reduced their ability to survive predation and in some cases significantly subjected them to be predation.

    -- The research was done by a wide range of researchers whose studies and scientific rigor were rarely integrated. Research methods were not standardized which yielded information that could not scientifically be compared with other studies.

    -- He also noted that there was no relationship between striped bass predation and salmon abundance.
    This was a huge admission!!
    If there was no relationship between them, then it seems like there cannot be a population level impact from striped bass predation. A number of the folks I talked to thought that this could mean they would not recommend any eradication programs at the very least. However, this was a preliminary finding. We will see what they recommend in about three months.

    Following the Chairman’s presentation, public comments were permitted. David was able to comment on problems with some of models that were being used and his concerns that several of the models lacked scientific credibility.

    My statement seemed to get some traction with several panel members as they appeared to be writing notes as I made my statement. My comments follow:
    “Should you determine that predation is so critical that it warrants spending funding that would otherwise be used to help restore the estuary, we would urge that you to evaluate the role played in this predation by the design and operation of the state and federal water projects, including direct and indirect impacts that have radically altered the hydrology of the Bay-Delta ecosystem. It would also be most helpful if you could recommend the best ways for those projects to mitigate for their impacts to the estuary and its fishery resources.”

    “I would also advise you that the direct and indirect impacts caused by the state and federal projects have never be properly quantified. The direct impacts of fish losses once fish enter Clifton Court Forebay have been roughly quantified annually for the past 30 years, but a cumulative effects analysis on the combined impacts this has had on the estuary’s fishery and aquatic resources has never been conducted. In addition, the losses associated with salmonids being pulled out of their migration corridors and carried into the Central Delta have never been estimated. Some guesses at these losses by scientists have suggested a range that is an order of magnitude higher than the direct losses because the interior Delta channels lack sufficient food to properly sustain salmonid migration. They also are habitat for a number of species of fish that predate on salmonids. The cumulative impacts of this loss are also unknown.”

    Tom Cannon with CSPA made some key comments regarding the lack of screens to keep fish out of Clifton Court Forebay and the antiquated “screens” used by the state and federal projects that should have been replaced decades ago due to their inefficiency. He also referenced a very successful barging program on the Columbia River that had returns of hatchery salmon to the river estimated as high as 54% which is orders of magnitude higher than our hatchery returns! These fish were barged down the river to avoid the predation that takes place by Pike Minnow (squaw fish) and walleye.

    David and I spoke with Tom following the Workshop. We discussed the potential benefits of a similar program for the estuary to get the fish from the hatchery to the ocean. It would stop predation on all of the hatchery fished barged. It would cause the predators to stop waiting at the mouths of many rivers for free lunch and to relocate providing benefits for wild salmon, and it would stop the ridiculous propaganda by the water contractors to eradicate striped bass. We will be working closely with Tom, CSPA and the CDFW to pursue such a program in the very near future!

    I’d like to thank the Striperfest/AFG guys who showed up and especially Red Bartley, Jim Cox and Tom Cannon.

    John Beuttler

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    Thanks, this was a good read. But, why spend money on moving fry if, as was stated above- "He also noted that there was no relationship between striped bass predation and salmon abundance.
    This was a huge admission!! If there was no relationship between them, then it seems like there cannot be a population level impact from striped bass predation." ? I found the second from last paragraph, " We discussed the potential benefits of a similar program for the estuary to get the fish from the hatchery to the ocean. It would stop predation on all of the hatchery fished barged. It would cause the predators to stop waiting at the mouths of many rivers for free lunch and to relocate providing benefits for wild salmon, and it would stop the ridiculous propaganda by the water contractors to eradicate striped bass." , a little contradictory. Do stripers
    have an impact or not, if not, why spend money moving fry? Why not use funding to reestablish the rearing and stocking of striper fry in the delta to increase the population.

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    Default Andy, It's not quite that simple...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Guibord View Post
    Thanks, this was a good read. But, why spend money on moving fry if, as was stated above- "He also noted that there was no relationship between striped bass predation and salmon abundance." Do stripers have an impact or not, if not, why spend money moving fry? Why not use funding to reestablish the rearing and stocking of striper fry in the delta to increase the population.
    We're talking about two different groups of fish. Out-migrating smolts that are ESA listed species and those that are hatchery smolts. Given that it will be many, many years and a huge "culture" change before we could possiblly have a completely recovered wild population, it will be necessary to continue the hatchery programs because those are the fish that drives the commercial and recreational fishing economies in the interim. There is definitely predation on hatchery stocks and no one will argue that there isn't. Most of the predation is caused by hatchery practices that cause high concentrations of predatory fish to be in places where they wouldn't be otherwise. Barging the smolts down the rivers to the ocean would stop all that nonsense and increase the return of adults back to the system. A win -win situation. The problem is that it's not a cheap operation. The even bigger problem is the those that are responsible for the public trust resources, have abdicated their responsibilities for so many years, that there is no political will to fix the long broken processes because the damage that's been done to our fisheries is so great. The obvious simple answer is that the water contractors and their Corporate Ag. dependents that have fleeced the system for so long should start repaying the taxpayers and ratepayers for their 50 year free ride, thus giving the state agencies the money it takes to do the necessary work. Will that happen?? Not likely.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Guibord View Post
    Thanks, this was a good read. But, why spend money on moving fry if, as was stated above- "He also noted that there was no relationship between striped bass predation and salmon abundance.
    This was a huge admission!! If there was no relationship between them, then it seems like there cannot be a population level impact from striped bass predation." ? I found the second from last paragraph, " We discussed the potential benefits of a similar program for the estuary to get the fish from the hatchery to the ocean. It would stop predation on all of the hatchery fished barged. It would cause the predators to stop waiting at the mouths of many rivers for free lunch and to relocate providing benefits for wild salmon, and it would stop the ridiculous propaganda by the water contractors to eradicate striped bass." , a little contradictory. Do stripers
    have an impact or not, if not, why spend money moving fry? Why not use funding to reestablish the rearing and stocking of striper fry in the delta to increase the population.
    I agree with Andy why would money be spent/redirected to stop predation that has no impact on the salmonid population. Those two paragraphs are completly contradictory and using a barge to move fry in light of the first paragraph mentioned above would be a profound waste.
    ~Tom Wilson
    "To go fishing is the chance to wash one's soul with pure air, with the rush of the brook, or with the shimmer of sun on blue water. It brings meekness and inspiration from the decency of nature, charity toward tackle-makers, patience toward fish, a mockery of profits and egos, a quieting of hate, a rejoicing that you do not have to decide a darned thing until next week. And it is discipline in the equality of men - for all men are equal before fish."
    ~ Herbert Hoover

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    Default Again, Some folks seem to be missing the point...

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyBum View Post
    I agree with Andy why would money be spent/redirected to stop predation that has no impact on the salmonid population. Those two paragraphs are completly contradictory and using a barge to move fry in light of the first paragraph mentioned above would be a profound waste.
    1.- Wild salmonid stocks have been decimated by miss-management and dereliction of duty by the keepers of the Public Trust since Shasta and Friant dams were built, as well as, the rest of the Rim Dams. The lack of acceptable habitat for their wild-state reproduction will hinder any restoration to former population levels for the fore-see-able future. The problem, again, is not predation by other fish! It is predation by the water export system! Another problem for wild stocks is here:

    http://calsport.org/news/wp-content/...winter-run.pdf

    And another here:

    http://calsport.org/news/wp-content/...se-7.25.13.pdf

    2.-Until wild stocks reach a level that is high enough to sustain viable commercial and sport fisheries we remain heavily dependent on hatchery production, period! Because of hatchery practices, predation by mammals, fish and birds is a constant threat to abundant returns of adult hatchery stocks. The work done in the Columbia River system shows by example that barging the hatchery smolts down the rivers to the Ocean shows an order of magnitude increase in returning of the adults. A "profound waste" it is NOT! Especially if WE develop the political will to force those that benefit from the destruction of our fisheries to pay the costs for rebuilding them.

    Edit add.... maybe an explanation of the differences in behavior with respect to wild salmonid smolts and those from hatchery production would be in order. Wild salmonids tend to migrate downstream mostly at night. During the day they spend most of their time hiding in protective cover. Having something trying to eat them ever since they began their life gives them better insight on what survival behavior is, (gettin' a little anthropomorphic here probably! Ha.)

    However big fat dumb hatchery smolts gather in huge schools and drift down the rivers in the middle of the channels (or where ever the current takes them) with their eyes always lookin' up for the feed pellets that they think comes from the sky. This behavior is an open invitation to get eaten by any hungry predator. Reason enough to consider barging them to the Ocean I would think.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike McKenzie; 07-29-2013 at 07:26 PM.

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    Mike: Some wonderful information and some keen insights on your part. Thanks for sharing.
    Gordon Langenbeck
    Grants Pass, OR

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    A big thanks to Mike, John, and Dave for your hard work. We are all very lucky to have you on our team!

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    The Feather River Hatchery is barging smolts to the Golden Gate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QTX71Iksf0. The group has a Facebook page on their efforts.

    Thanks for volunteering your time and money to save the stripers!

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    Yeah until they fix the politics/water issues you'll never really see good smolt survival and recovery of populations. To really protect the salmonids they need to desginate a lot of our valley streams as "cold water" use designated systems, which would force an increase in the bare minimum flows at a lot of controlled discharge areas. You'd be surprised how many smolts never make it out because the water is just too damn warm.

    The delta ecosystem is a mess in general. Too much fresh water diverted out and introduced organisms that either out compete or cannot be utilized by all the juvenile fish trying to get to the ocean. The whole food web of the valley fish nursery is out of balance and really needs to be fixed before we'll probably see a big signifigance in smolt survival as well. IMO anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike McKenzie View Post
    1.- Wild salmonid stocks have been decimated by miss-management and dereliction of duty by the keepers of the Public Trust since Shasta and Friant dams were built, as well as, the rest of the Rim Dams. The lack of acceptable habitat for their wild-state reproduction will hinder any restoration to former population levels for the fore-see-able future. The problem, again, is not predation by other fish! It is predation by the water export system! Another problem for wild stocks is here:

    http://calsport.org/news/wp-content/...winter-run.pdf

    And another here:

    http://calsport.org/news/wp-content/...se-7.25.13.pdf

    2.-Until wild stocks reach a level that is high enough to sustain viable commercial and sport fisheries we remain heavily dependent on hatchery production, period! Because of hatchery practices, predation by mammals, fish and birds is a constant threat to abundant returns of adult hatchery stocks. The work done in the Columbia River system shows by example that barging the hatchery smolts down the rivers to the Ocean shows an order of magnitude increase in returning of the adults. A "profound waste" it is NOT! Especially if WE develop the political will to force those that benefit from the destruction of our fisheries to pay the costs for rebuilding them.

    Edit add.... maybe an explanation of the differences in behavior with respect to wild salmonid smolts and those from hatchery production would be in order. Wild salmonids tend to migrate downstream mostly at night. During the day they spend most of their time hiding in protective cover. Having something trying to eat them ever since they began their life gives them better insight on what survival behavior is, (gettin' a little anthropomorphic here probably! Ha.)

    However big fat dumb hatchery smolts gather in huge schools and drift down the rivers in the middle of the channels (or where ever the current takes them) with their eyes always lookin' up for the feed pellets that they think comes from the sky. This behavior is an open invitation to get eaten by any hungry predator. Reason enough to consider barging them to the Ocean I would think.

    Mike
    There’s a lot of unsubstantiated opinion being stated as absolute fact in this thread. And also a lot of “potential” facts that in all likelihood have been totally taken out of context. Let’s start with the latter and the new “revelation” on recent barging success. They've been barging salmonids down the Columbia for more than three decades. This is hardly a new development. Typical rates of return for barged salmon on the Columbia run ~ 0.5% if memory serves, not the 54% cited in this thread. I'm having a difficult time buying that Cannon made the statements being attributed to him in this thread. Let's see the peer reviewed science that shows that barging has somehow become 110 times more efficient within the last few seasons than it was in the past three decades on the Columbia.

    I'm guessing if Cannon made a statement about barging salmonids on the Columbia at all, it was likely to the effect that ~ 55% of fish that return are fish that were barged and not that ~55% of barged fish return. Huge difference.

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