Mountain Lion Citing-S Fork Yuba

[the_gnarwhale]

CA is overpopulated, I'm all for bringing back wolves, grizzly bears, jaguars, wolverines, and having robust lion populations. Might help traffic a bit

[Mark Kranhold]

Bigfly, love to see the Grizz back in California! I was talking to a lady at my grocery store and she said her husband knows some high up FWL employee and said that they had released a couple grizzly in the high mountain range of the Trinity Alps and the White mountains. I really couldn't see this happening without it going public. That would sure turn some heads!

[Jake O]

As a hunter (not a Mt. Lion hunter though), I'm going to go against the grain here. When Mountain Lions are made legal to hunt, its much like wolves--tags are issued based upon how many the state wants to get rid of in order to have a healthy and balanced population. If people didnt use dogs, no one would ever fill any of the tags. Moreover, any suggestion that hunting lions with dogs is some easy feet is misconcieved...most of the "hunting" involves years of effort training the dogs to learn how to track, and then it always takes efforts to locate mountain lion sign before the dogs ever start tracking. You could search for days, or even weeks, before finding a set of "fresh" tracks that are fresh enough for dogs to follow. There is a lot more effort that goes into treeing a lion that meets the eyes. Again, im not a lion hunter, but have seen them hunt them on TV and explain the craft--also had a friend who used to traing and run his dogs to tree lions solely for the purpose of the dogs (he was into the training, not shooting).

Just as easily as anyone can say treeing lions is not sporting, you could say that duck hunting where you trick ducks to come into your set up with fake duck decoys and fake duck calls is not sporting. As a duck hunter, i know better, it is sporting, and not any joe on the street can be effective. It takes years to master the craft.

Ultimately, those who lash out probably dont know any better, because they have never actually looked into it; just like those who complain about trevon martin probably didnt watch a lick of the actual trial but instead want to make a decisision on what they feel is right based upon what is "popular" and "seems" to make sense based upon a gut reaction. (sorry, had to make my one political comment per post .

Go ahead, flame on. Democracy demands different perspectives.

[JasonB]

As a hunter (not a Mt. Lion hunter though), I'm going to go against the grain here. When Mountain Lions are made legal to hunt, its much like wolves--tags are issued based upon how many the state wants to get rid of in order to have a healthy and balanced population. If people didnt use dogs, no one would ever fill any of the tags. Moreover, any suggestion that hunting lions with dogs is some easy feet is misconcieved...most of the "hunting" involves years of effort training the dogs to learn how to track, and then it always takes efforts to locate mountain lion sign before the dogs ever start tracking. You could search for days, or even weeks, before finding a set of "fresh" tracks that are fresh enough for dogs to follow. There is a lot more effort that goes into treeing a lion that meets the eyes. Again, im not a lion hunter, but have seen them hunt them on TV and explain the craft--also had a friend who used to traing and run his dogs to tree lions solely for the purpose of the dogs (he was into the training, not shooting).

Just as easily as anyone can say treeing lions is not sporting, you could say that duck hunting where you trick ducks to come into your set up with fake duck decoys and fake duck calls is not sporting. As a duck hunter, i know better, it is sporting, and not any joe on the street can be effective. It takes years to master the craft.

Ultimately, those who lash out probably dont know any better, because they have never actually looked into it; just like those who complain about trevon martin probably didnt watch a lick of the actual trial but instead want to make a decisision on what they feel is right based upon what is "popular" and "seems" to make sense based upon a gut reaction. (sorry, had to make my one political comment per post .

Go ahead, flame on. Democracy demands different perspectives.

Jake,
No flames from me, I'm all for perspectives and opinions; particularly those given with the intent to further a respectful debate wherein all parties learn a bit more. The only thing I take issue with is the concept that those who have different opinions have formulated them due to lack of knowledge and were only going along with the "popular" trend. I share the thoughts that shooting at a treed animal is far outside of what I consider "sport", nothing about whether or not it's "easy" or not. I suppose it's all what one defines as sporting or not. I think most folks who are opposed to hunting Lions, or Bears with dogs are probably more aware of the process than you allude to... just a guess. Just a different set of values, or standards about what they consider sport.

I'm also perhaps a bit more cynical about the state managing a "healthy and balanced population", as I think that there are likely economic and political influences that may well skew this process (that is admittedly pure "gut instinct" based on my overall perception of what makes the world go round). Not saying the state isn't capable of managing such things, but I still think it's healthy to retain some skepticism of the process. And that's about as close to politics as I'm interested in going
JB

[Rockman]

I have nothing against hunting, I'm just against taking life for the "sport". I like to hunt, but I shoot with a big lense. Photography is proof of the shot and I may work just as hard at tracking/hiking as any hunter. Not bashing anyone, just a different perspective. Hope someday to shoot a mountain lion, and hopefully, someone else will get their shot also cause I did not have to kill it.
Some take joy in killing, I take joy in releasing ( most of them).

[Charlie S]

It's nice to see some balanced and respectful posts. Thank you guys. I hunt but I eat what I hunt. I would love to get a lion if legal as I have read numerous accounts from the "old" days that mountain men considered lion to be top fare. Always willing to try something once. The only thing I shoot consistently but don't eat is coyotes.

[bigfly]

Charlie, Jake, I've never hunted cats, but used to kill almost anything that moved......and some that didn't.
Edible or not. (Ate most of them, but not coyotes, guess there's still time....)
Ran a trapline for money.....etc.
(Last year I did have Squirrel stew....little bugger thought my bird feeder was a government-style food incentive program.)
(I can get political too.)
I fish well, because I hunted well.
Many of the same skills........
Now I just frighten and release fish. Actually, I mostly teach others to frighten them...(they still have to land them though..)
Haven't eaten a fish in decades.
Some would see me as a cretin for this.
I understand both sides of this thing.
But to me, shooting a critter out of a tree, is like shooting ducks on water, or pheasant on the ground, or catching fish in a barrel.
( Or the LT at 40cfs........)
Not much to shout about.
Now......if you used a spear......I mean......go up the tree if you want to impress me, that.... would be sporty.
Each to his own.
No problem with other opinions though.
I run into that a lot.
Especially with other fishermen.........
I think, my point is...without critters that can threaten us, we have lost the wild, and are now domesticated.
As a diver, I'd say the ocean is a pale representation, without Great Whites in it........
Lets let a few cats roam, bears too, and be heads-up when we are out.
And if you get eaten once you leave the trail head, that is the price of wild. ( But, I don't want to see them downtown.)
Although, every-time I walk back to the truck in the twilight, I hope it's not me........

Lets not forget, along with sexual selection (which we do OK with), predation is a strong evolutionary force, and we humans defiantly need to evolve a bit more........or at very least, be a little more humble.

Jim

[Randy Lee]

Bigfly, Hit the nail on the head. Hallelujah! I like the spear idea.
Randy

[NCL]

I have a little different point of view to present, that of a deer. A mature Mountain Lion will kill a deer a week and only eat on it for a couple of days. When Lion hunting was stopped in 1990 it was estimated there were 5000 lions in California which would translate into 5000 deer per week. Now with no hunting or other predators to keep the population in control how many lions are there? Also with hunting will come management of the resource which I suspect to totally absent now. Additionally about 15 years ago there was a big horn sheep population that was totally destroyed by lions so the lions are having an impact on other wildlife population.

Pedator populations are also controled by the amount of food/prey available. The larger the prey base the larger the carrying capacity.
With the larger human population moving further into lion habitat there is an additional food source to assist in there early life, the food source is dogs, cats, or any other domestic animal.

Lastly, lion are now being killed through depredation permits, which is a cost to California. If hunting of lions was reintroduced then California would derive money from tag sales along with a reduction of costs.

[esummers]

I have a little different point of view to present, that of a deer. A mature Mountain Lion will kill a deer a week and only eat on it for a couple of days. When Lion hunting was stopped in 1990 it was estimated there were 5000 lions in California which would translate into 5000 deer per week. Now with no hunting or other predators to keep the population in control how many lions are there? Also with hunting will come management of the resource which I suspect to totally absent now. Additionally about 15 years ago there was a big horn sheep population that was totally destroyed by lions so the lions are having an impact on other wildlife population.

Pedator populations are also controled by the amount of food/prey available. The larger the prey base the larger the carrying capacity.
With the larger human population moving further into lion habitat there is an additional food source to assist in there early life, the food source is dogs, cats, or any other domestic animal.

Lastly, lion are now being killed through depredation permits, which is a cost to California. If hunting of lions was reintroduced then California would derive money from tag sales along with a reduction of costs.

Couldn't agree more.

As a sidenote, I work at Aerojet and we had a person running on site a few weeks ago who spotted a Lion. It was staring her down. Got a company wide email to be on the lookout for them and we're not allowed to run alone anymore (I run out there all the time). Of course, I run along the American river too and I'm sure they're out there as well. I hope to see one.