first trip up the American

[Joshua R.]

On targeting the big ones-

someone said the lakes are fair game if someone wanted to go after big ones. That the deeper water would make it hard enough for the diver and easy enough for the fish to get away. I've also heard that there are lakes that don't feed into the rivers or the breeidng population so those would be fine if someone wanted to target bigger fish. Is this a viable option for those that would target big fish?

[Mike O]

A I stated in a previous thread...the state doesn't own the river.

Also, a thought just occurred to me...there are plenty of large stripers in the Sac. I know a lot of people who fish them and catch big ones around Knights Landing, above the AR. They will likely never be targeted by spearfishers, due to the nature of the water. Therefore there will always be a reservoir of breeding fish.

[Fish Guru]

Ok, so my size estimates coincide with yours, if we target 24-30" we should be ok even if we go over by an inch or two.

I wouldn't worry about the vicinity thing. Spears are teathered to the gun and can only go about 10 feet before reaching the end of their line. Unless you're practically standing on top of someone there shouldn't be a problem.

Guru- we should have these conversations on spearboard and NorCal Underwater Hunters too. Spearos are new to this fishery and unaware of what has happened up until now. I know the difference between a non-native and an invasive species, but many don't. Westgate has done an excellent job of spreading their propoganda haven't they?

I tried having civil discussions over on spearboard, for the most part it didn't go so well. If everyone over there was as reasonable and knowledgable as you Joshua then I think common ground could be found. Man I could've used some help on the non native versus invasive thing, glad you see it as it really is and not some misinformed propaganda. Look forward to continuing discussions with ya over here Joshua!

[Fish Guru]

On targeting the big ones-

someone said the lakes are fair game if someone wanted to go after big ones. That the deeper water would make it hard enough for the diver and easy enough for the fish to get away. I've also heard that there are lakes that don't feed into the rivers or the breeidng population so those would be fine if someone wanted to target bigger fish. Is this a viable option for those that would target big fish?

Definitely a viable option, problem is the only close lake with stripers( new hogan) doesn't have much in the way of big fish. Miller ton in cen cal does, as does San Antonio I think, as well as San Luis but not sure if you can spear there.

[Fish Guru]

Mike, there is also a resident population of large females in the American, that can be decimated if large fish are what is predominantly targeted. Many catch and release anglers, myself included, are already seeing way too many large spawners killed without the addition of another avenue to take them. This applies to the American and knights landing. With the numbers of stripers overall in fairly significant decline, we need as many large breeders as possible to keep what's left of the fishery going. Larger fish produce larger eggs that hatch into larger fry, which is definitely something that needs to be maximized as the overall numbers continue to plummet.

[Mike O]

[QUOTE=Fish Guru;135842]Larger fish produce larger eggs that hatch into larger fry,[\QUOTE]

I know that they produce MORE eggs with larger females. But LARGER? All I can find are average sizes, for both eggs and Fry. Can you point me in the direction of something that substantiates larger females pruduce LARGER fry?

[Fish Guru]

[QUOTE=Mike O;135844]

Larger fish produce larger eggs that hatch into larger fry,[\QUOTE]

I know that they produce MORE eggs with larger females. But LARGER? All I can find are average sizes, for both eggs and Fry. Can you point me in the direction of something that substantiates larger females pruduce LARGER fry?

Here ya go Mike:
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/state_f...opulations.pdf

[Joshua R.]

I tried having civil discussions over on spearboard, for the most part it didn't go so well. If everyone over there was as reasonable and knowledgable as you Joshua then I think common ground could be found. Man I could've used some help on the non native versus invasive thing, glad you see it as it really is and not some misinformed propaganda. Look forward to continuing discussions with ya over here Joshua!

I'm an administrator on NCUH. I can introduce you as someone I've invited to share your knowledge with us. If we don't have these discussions how can we say we're promoting conservation? I can't guarantee people won't be passionate but I can guarantee they will be respectful.

[Mike O]

[QUOTE=Fish Guru;135847]

Here ya go Mike:
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/state_f...opulations.pdf

Interesting...thank you

[Darian]

Mike,.... I sure the access issue was resolved some time ago in favor of Spearfishing being allowed in the American as long as entry is not thru the parkway. It was even covered in reporting by the SacBee.

With respect, I have to disagree with your reasoning in the following statement:

"...there are plenty of large stripers in the Sac. I know a lot of people who fish them and catch big ones around Knights Landing, above the AR. They will likely never be targeted by spearfishers, due to the nature of the water. Therefore there will always be a reservoir of breeding fish." (emphasis added)

I'm fairly sure the idea that the Sacramento River will always provide a reservoir of breeding fish isn't realistic. If it were, there wouldn't be declining populations of Stripers across their range as Sacramento River spawners would always make up for the losses. In terms of overall population, the number of breeders removed from any tributary will contribute to overall decline Stripers but spearfishing in tributaries will surely accelerate that result. There are a lot of reasons why this (overall population decline) is so, not all related to fishing. Population declines seem to be the case for all anadromous/pelagic species in the Delta and it's tributaries.

The life span of a large, spawner is lengthy when compared to those of other fish. There are always more smaller, immature fish than adults. Replacing a spawner takes many years of growth and survival. So, removal of numbers of spawners from a limited area may interrupt spawning for lengthy periods or altogether.