first trip up the American

[Mike McKenzie]

I've pulled the post for a rewrite, sometimes circular arguments are more trouble than they're worth.

Hey Willy, Please post your data (or reference links) on entrainment as well as any data that supports your assertions about striped bass population levels..

Mike

Well I'm back and I won't respond to the two previous posts by Willy for the reason stated above in that "I said, you said" or "you said, I said" arguments are probably the most useless waste of time there is. Those kinds of conversations are about as circular as any can get and never seem to end unless one decides not to play anymore. Willy, what I said and what you said is documented by the Board and context really doesn't matter for the most part because the original words are there in each of our posts.

However, I will respond to what I consider constructive criticism of the "striped bass community" and its "striped bass anglers". (which is what we are, as most of us don't consider ourselves "gurus" and we are a "community of striped bass anglers")

In consideration of Willy's constructive criticism with regard to the striped bass anglers hammering on striped bass predation issues and direct effects of the pumping while seemingly ignoring the myriad incidental effects such as POD, invasive benthic organisms etc. etc.

Here is a little history that should explain the fixation on predation. It starts in Jan.2008 when the "Coalition for a Sustainable Delta" basically a group of Corporate Ag folks in the southern San Joaquin Valley desert and the Water Contractors that serve them filed a lawsuit challenged the California Department of Fish and Game’s (“CDFG”) enforcement of state sportfishing regulations that protect striped bass populations within the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta.

This now quoted from the Court Documents...
"Plaintiffs, a coalition of water users led by the Coalition for a Sustainable Delta (“Coalition”), complain that CDFG’s enforcement of these regulations violates the EndangeredSpecies Act (“ESA”), because striped bass prey upon at least four species listed under the ESA, including the Sacramento River winter-run Chinook salmon, Central Valley spring-run Chinook salmon, Central Valley steelhead, and delta smelt (the “Listed Species”). Plaintiffs move for summary judgment on the following discrete issues, the resolution of which they assert “will narrow the issues in the case and provide the parties with guidance as to how to proceed”:

"(1) [T]hat those portions of the Central Valley Improvement Act (“CVPIA”), Pub. L. 102-575, 106
Stat. 4600, Title 34, 106 Stat 4706-31 (1992), pertaining to anadromous fish, do not exempt
CDFG’s enforcement of striped bass sport-fishing regulations from the take prohibitions under
Section 9 of the ESA, 16 U.S.C. § 1538 (a)(1)(B);

(2) [T]hat it is a violation of the ESA to “take” a single endangered Sacramento-River
winter-run [C]hinook salmon, threatened Central Valley spring-run [C]hinook salmon, threatened
Central Valley steelhead, or threatened delta smelt without prior take authorization from the
appropriate federal Wildlife Agency;

(3) [T]hat it is a violation of the ESA for a government or government agency or entity to
“take” a federally listed species through the exercise of its regulatory authority without
first receiving take authorization from the appropriate federal Wildlife Agency."

The above is what set the stage for the "predation argument" that has been a forefront discussion ever since because they alleged that "one striper" eating one individual that is a listed species is a take.

We all know how that turned out..They lost the lawsuit in a big way with the dismissal of the above Motion for Summary Judgement as well as the second one they filed which meant that we would be going to trial with out any win at all for the Plaintiffs. However, an overriding fear of losing an appeal after trial (where that came from no one will cop to) CDFG negotiated a "Settlement Agreement" in which they agreed to proposed striped bass reg. changes and the CDFG lost that battle at the F& G Commission meeting on Feb.02 2012.

Even though the CSD lost, the water contractors are still beating the drum blaming all the problems with the Delta and the water export system on striped bass predation while completely ignoring the damage caused by the record amounts of export pumping since the early 2000's (which, BTW nicely coincides with the POD!) As example they sponsored Assembly Bill 1253 (2009 Fuller, Bakersfield) an attempted end run around their puny lawsuit by going to the State Legislature in 2009 and another attempt with A.B. 2336 (again, Fuller in 2010) Both of the Bills were killed (or amended out of existence) in the Legislature with the help of the striped bass community!

Above is a thumb nail sketch of why the striper community has predation on its mind, it's because we are being constantly attacked by the water thieves over it. In reality it is all nothing more than a diversionary "red-herring" but we react and respond because the threat is real and constant. They think that as long as the can play the evil striped bass as the culprit, people will forget the huge damage being done by removing an unsustainable amount of water from the system. (Not working very well)

For anyone that has stuck with me this far Here is a nice historical accounting of our Delta and its problems and the hard work by folks that care. (in spite of some of us gettin' on their case sometimes!) This is a much better read than anything I could write!!

http://www.water.ca.gov/iep/docs/Her...port_FINAL.pdf

Believe me when I say that in the trenches we fight for the whole Bay-Delta Eco-system not just striped bass!

Mike

[Randy Lee]

Mike,
The light has dawned. Thanks for clearing the fog! Great post.
Randy

[OceanSunfish]

As always Mike, Well said. Thanks for the great post.

[Kevin Goding]

Well I'm back and I won't respond to the two previous posts by Willy for the reason stated above in that "I said, you said" or "you said, I said" arguments are probably the most useless waste of time there is. Those kinds of conversations are about as circular as any can get and never seem to end unless one decides not to play anymore. Willy, what I said and what you said is documented by the Board and context really doesn't matter for the most part because the original words are there in each of our posts.

However, I will respond to what I consider constructive criticism of the "striped bass community" and its "striped bass anglers". (which is what we are, as most of us don't consider ourselves "gurus" and we are a "community of striped bass anglers")

In consideration of Willy's constructive criticism with regard to the striped bass anglers hammering on striped bass predation issues and direct effects of the pumping while seemingly ignoring the myriad incidental effects such as POD, invasive benthic organisms etc. etc.

Here is a little history that should explain the fixation on predation. It starts in Jan.2008 when the "Coalition for a Sustainable Delta" basically a group of Corporate Ag folks in the southern San Joaquin Valley desert and the Water Contractors that serve them filed a lawsuit challenged the California Department of Fish and Game’s (“CDFG”) enforcement of state sportfishing regulations that protect striped bass populations within the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta.

This now quoted from the Court Documents...
"Plaintiffs, a coalition of water users led by the Coalition for a Sustainable Delta (“Coalition”), complain that CDFG’s enforcement of these regulations violates the EndangeredSpecies Act (“ESA”), because striped bass prey upon at least four species listed under the ESA, including the Sacramento River winter-run Chinook salmon, Central Valley spring-run Chinook salmon, Central Valley steelhead, and delta smelt (the “Listed Species”). Plaintiffs move for summary judgment on the following discrete issues, the resolution of which they assert “will narrow the issues in the case and provide the parties with guidance as to how to proceed”:

"(1) [T]hat those portions of the Central Valley Improvement Act (“CVPIA”), Pub. L. 102-575, 106
Stat. 4600, Title 34, 106 Stat 4706-31 (1992), pertaining to anadromous fish, do not exempt
CDFG’s enforcement of striped bass sport-fishing regulations from the take prohibitions under
Section 9 of the ESA, 16 U.S.C. § 1538 (a)(1)(B);

(2) [T]hat it is a violation of the ESA to “take” a single endangered Sacramento-River
winter-run [C]hinook salmon, threatened Central Valley spring-run [C]hinook salmon, threatened
Central Valley steelhead, or threatened delta smelt without prior take authorization from the
appropriate federal Wildlife Agency;

(3) [T]hat it is a violation of the ESA for a government or government agency or entity to
“take” a federally listed species through the exercise of its regulatory authority without
first receiving take authorization from the appropriate federal Wildlife Agency."

The above is what set the stage for the "predation argument" that has been a forefront discussion ever since because they alleged that "one striper" eating one individual that is a listed species is a take.

We all know how that turned out..They lost the lawsuit in a big way with the dismissal of the above Motion for Summary Judgement as well as the second one they filed which meant that we would be going to trial with out any win at all for the Plaintiffs. However, an overriding fear of losing an appeal after trial (where that came from no one will cop to) CDFG negotiated a "Settlement Agreement" in which they agreed to proposed striped bass reg. changes and the CDFG lost that battle at the F& G Commission meeting on Feb.02 2012.

Even though the CSD lost, the water contractors are still beating the drum blaming all the problems with the Delta and the water export system on striped bass predation while completely ignoring the damage caused by the record amounts of export pumping since the early 2000's (which, BTW nicely coincides with the POD!) As example they sponsored Assembly Bill 1253 (2009 Fuller, Bakersfield) an attempted end run around their puny lawsuit by going to the State Legislature in 2009 and another attempt with A.B. 2336 (again, Fuller in 2010) Both of the Bills were killed (or amended out of existence) in the Legislature with the help of the striped bass community!

Above is a thumb nail sketch of why the striper community has predation on its mind, it's because we are being constantly attacked by the water thieves over it. In reality it is all nothing more than a diversionary "red-herring" but we react and respond because the threat is real and constant. They think that as long as the can play the evil striped bass as the culprit, people will forget the huge damage being done by removing an unsustainable amount of water from the system. (Not working very well)

For anyone that has stuck with me this far Here is a nice historical accounting of our Delta and its problems and the hard work by folks that care. (in spite of some of us gettin' on their case sometimes!) This is a much better read than anything I could write!!

http://www.water.ca.gov/iep/docs/Her...port_FINAL.pdf

Believe me when I say that in the trenches we fight for the whole Bay-Delta Eco-system not just striped bass!

Mike

I used to help with some of the POD sampling. Just hanging out with the boat operator explaining the history and the changes of the delta was eye opening itself. The best example is the C&H sugar processing plant that was built a long time ago. They specifically picked that location for the "endless" supply of freshwater available. That is no longer the case and they use city water now, due to saltwater incursion that far up the system from all the diversion. I'm not saying the pumps are the main culprit, just our native species have a lot of stressors, a big one being this alien environment we've plumbed for them.