questions and answers about nymphing with a floating line and no indicator

[Bull_Dog]

I got this email yesterday sent to my pyramid lake website. The questions were great so I thought I would share my response with the board.

Rob,
On my last trip to Pyramid (May 9) the conditions were very tough (calm winds, no chop on the water, clear skies). Almost everyone around me had either gotten skunked or caught one fish. I was doing better myself. I hooked 4 fish, landed 3 and lost one at the net. The 3 fish I landed were caught on red Mahalo Nymphs while retrieving my line very slowly like I was nymphing without an indicator even though I was using one. I have three related questions: 1) Given the calm water conditions, do you think I might have done better taking off the indicator and fishing without one? 2) I caught the first two fish using an 8 ½ ‘ tippet and the last fish using a 7’ tippet. If I took the indicator off how long of a tippet would you suggest? 3) With this technique, do you still use a dropper fly? I’ve never fished nymphs with a floating line this way so I’d just like to know more about it.
Thanks,
Name withheld

Sir,

Glad you caught some fish! Also great questions.

I personally don't like using the indicator rig when the lake is glass. Actually I really don't like fishing the lake when it is that calm. Sometimes we are forced to and have to make the best of it. So to answer your questions,

1) Anytime the lake is calm and I am using the indicator rig I like to do some form of stripping the flies in as you say you were doing. Usually one long slow pull about 2 feet or so. Let the flies sink again and repeat after about 15 seconds. Lots of the grabs will come right after the pull. You kinda have to create your own motion on the flies when there is no chop to work your indicator. Sometimes it does help to take off the indicator and sometimes it does not. There are anglers who prefer to feel their grabs and not use one at all. It is probably the best time to take off the indicator when it is calm. Both ways work for sure.

2) When you are stripping nymphs with a floating line the depth of the water and how deep you want to fish your flies will dictate your leader length. At Pyramid most of us want to have the flies close to or right on the bottom so your leader needs to be longer than the depth of the water. The nymphs will sink to the bottom and if you are stripping them in slowly they should stay there. The closer your leader length is to the depth of the water, the more your flies will work vertically when you retrieve them. The longer your leader is in relation to the water depth the more horizontally they will move along the bottom. For most of the beaches we fish at Pyramid I tend to start out with about a 12 foot leader unless I know I am fishing in water that is deeper.

3) I would certainly use two flies in this set up. Mainly to get your flies down quicker and with a little more weight I think it makes it easier to cast a longer leader. Try to put them at least 2 feet or even 3 feet apart. I also like to use nymph style flies like the Red Maholo Nymph over midge style flies when I am doing this technique. I personally think they just look better when they are being retrieved instead of hung under an indicator.

I hope that helps a little and good luck trying out some new techniques,

Rob Anderson
www.pyramidlakeflyfishing.com

[bartly]

So hope you can answer what is probably a simple question. How do you get the fish in close enough to net with a 12' leader if you are using a strike indicator? I am using the styrofoam floats with the rubber tube in the slot of the bobber that twists around the line to hold it in place. Do you use some sort of sliding indicator?

[Bull_Dog]

So hope you can answer what is probably a simple question. How do you get the fish in close enough to net with a 12' leader if you are using a strike indicator? I am using the styrofoam floats with the rubber tube in the slot of the bobber that twists around the line to hold it in place. Do you use some sort of sliding indicator?

Another great question. I use a technique for fishing nymphs and midges in deep water using a break away indicator that actually breaks free from your leader when you set the hook on a fish and slides down your leader. This allows you to bring some of your longer leader through your guides so you can reach your fish. Once you release your fish the break away indicator can easily be placed back on your leader at your desired depth. The problem with this system is getting the indicator back in the same spot on your leader where it was before. sometimes 3 or 4 inches in either direction can make a diference.

I have developed a system using braid as part of my leader coming off my fly line. This leader will be for sale at many fly shops next year. Umpqua Feather Merchants is going to make the leaders and wholesale them to fly fishing retailers in 2014. I have been building them and selling them at shows, fly club meetings and from my house until they are available. They have a 12 foot section of Braid that I mark with a sharpie every 12 inches so it makes it easy to find the spot where you had your indicator before it was released. The braid also has no stretch and makes it easier to set the hook on a 15-20 foot leader.

I have also demonstrated this technique at my Advanced Stillwater outings for the last few years and will be doing so again this year at Davis Lake with Jon Baiocchi in June.

Hope that helps,

Rob Anderson
Reno Fly Fishing Outfitters
775-742-1754
rob@bucketlistflyfishing.com

[EricW]

For stillwater in general, when it's calm and using a float and the action is slow, how do you keep people from going completely insane?

[Troutstalker55B]

For stillwater in general, when it's calm and using a float and the action is slow, how do you keep people from going completely insane?

Just look at surrounding landscape, the birds, grab some food and the bobber will go down. I think the fish watch us and when they see our eyes look away they go for the take, its a game to them and they count numbers of missed strikes too!

[Mike McKenzie]

Just look at surrounding landscape, the birds, grab some food and the bobber will go down. I think the fish watch us and when they see our eyes look away they go for the take, its a game to them and they count numbers of missed strikes too!

Couldn't have said it better!!

Mike

[bartly]

Another great question. I use a technique for fishing nymphs and midges in deep water using a break away indicator that actually breaks free from your leader when you set the hook on a fish and slides down your leader. This allows you to bring some of your longer leader through your guides so you can reach your fish. Once you release your fish the break away indicator can easily be placed back on your leader at your desired depth. The problem with this system is getting the indicator back in the same spot on your leader where it was before. sometimes 3 or 4 inches in either direction can make a diference.

I have developed a system using braid as part of my leader coming off my fly line. This leader will be for sale at many fly shops next year. Umpqua Feather Merchants is going to make the leaders and wholesale them to fly fishing retailers in 2014. I have been building them and selling them at shows, fly club meetings and from my house until they are available. They have a 12 foot section of Braid that I mark with a sharpie every 12 inches so it makes it easy to find the spot where you had your indicator before it was released. The braid also has no stretch and makes it easier to set the hook on a 15-20 foot leader.

I have also demonstrated this technique at my Advanced Stillwater outings for the last few years and will be doing so again this year at Davis Lake with Jon Baiocchi in June.

Hope that helps,

Rob Anderson
Reno Fly Fishing Outfitters
775-742-1754
rob@bucketlistflyfishing.com

Thanks for the info. I never thought of a break away system. I kept remembering crappie fishing when I was still only doing the spin fishing thing. They use either a section of thread knotted and a bead to stop the bobber and the bobber and bead just slide down the line as you pull it in. Also used a little rubber "knob looking" piece that does the same thing. I just know that casting either of those would just sling a strike indicator to the fly and it probably would just end up floating next to a midge or whatever I was trying to use. Thanks for the break away info.

[Bull_Dog]

I just did a trip at Pyramid Lake where anglers on the beach we were fishing were using an indicator and with a long cast were fishing in maybe 15 feet of water. It has been the place to be for the late season bite. Most anglers were fishing their indicators 9-11 feet down and no more because of the issues above. 1. I do not think they knew how deep the water was that they were fishing in and 2. did not seem to make a difference to them because they were catching fish.

I had two beginner clients out one morning on this beach and they could only roll cast in about 10 feet of water. We has way lsess hook ups as did a gentlemen from Susanville down the beach. After my clients left around lunch time I did the good angler imitation thing and started casting farther out into the lake and fishing deeper. Whamm. Whamm Whamm. Then I put on my deep water rig and started fishing 14 feet under the indicator and holy shit. Whamm, whamm, whamm. whamm. whamm. whamm. etc.

The fish were there we just were not getting to them. They are still there right now. I am waiting for a little sleep and the sun to come up to do it again. The water is warming fast and this bite will be over soon. but check out this picture of an absolute pig from friday. Red Maholo nymph in 14 feet.

Rob Anderson
pyramidlakeflyfishing.com
775-742-1754

[amoeba]

B_D:

Are your home-made breakaway leaders for sale anywhere ? ace hardware perhaps?; I remember them at pleasanton but didn't buy there....

That last silver fish is beautiful. Wow.

[bartly]

I just did a trip at Pyramid Lake where anglers on the beach we were fishing were using an indicator and with a long cast were fishing in maybe 15 feet of water. It has been the place to be for the late season bite. Most anglers were fishing their indicators 9-11 feet down and no more because of the issues above. 1. I do not think they knew how deep the water was that they were fishing in and 2. did not seem to make a difference to them because they were catching fish.

I had two beginner clients out one morning on this beach and they could only roll cast in about 10 feet of water. We has way lsess hook ups as did a gentlemen from Susanville down the beach. After my clients left around lunch time I did the good angler imitation thing and started casting farther out into the lake and fishing deeper. Whamm. Whamm Whamm. Then I put on my deep water rig and started fishing 14 feet under the indicator and holy shit. Whamm, whamm, whamm. whamm. whamm. whamm. etc.

The fish were there we just were not getting to them. They are still there right now. I am waiting for a little sleep and the sun to come up to do it again. The water is warming fast and this bite will be over soon. but check out this picture of an absolute pig from friday. Red Maholo nymph in 14 feet.

Rob Anderson
pyramidlakeflyfishing.com
775-742-1754

Damn, nice fish. I was skunked again on Sunday. Been skunked the last several trips there, well I think I caught one loner about 3 trips ago. I was using about a 10 foot leader in about 15 feet of water, maybe I have to go deeper.