Flourocarbon tippet worth it?

[steveg137]

So I was going to post on subject today but different angle. My question was is it worth paying for more expensive fluro or stuff like p line?

For those that use Fluro do you use rio and other premium priced stuff or lower cost options? Today I used p line fluro for 8 feet main line and rio for tippet. Worked really well and lot less $ than using rio straight through.

Realize retail margins on higher priced stuff helps angling stores as the margin is higher but is it worthwhile? Personally I'm going to stick with lower price for butt sections and finer stuff for tippet.

[JasonB]

I've had a little experience with flouro, and it's been almost all in the negative. I bought one spool from Rio on a lark to see if it helped out on some of those finicky trout on the LT and BT, and the only real difference I noticed was how my knot failure rate went up dramatically. Lost quite a few fish honestly. I swore myself off it... until I had a real steal deal on some older Climax flouro tippet spools. I figured that since it was supposed to last forever it would be ok, and the price was very cheap and I decided to give it another try. Now maybe it's just this brand, but it sure seems to me to have aged since it actually frays. On the up side, I have found that with a lot more careful attention to my knots that this tippet holds up almost the same as my knots tied on mono, but other than that these spools are all really weak and break far too easily. Basically this stuff just falls apart, not sure if it's age or manufacturer defect or whatever but it's the second time I've been burned by flouro so at this point I'd need convincing even if the stuff was much cheaper.

No idea on the "invisible" aspect, I tried comparing it in shallow water with my mono tippet and I found that I could see both of them a lot better than I would like to. I'd say count me as a skeptic on that account, but that's from pretty unscientific testing.
JB

[Chris Evison]

I have used flouro for the last 9 years as a guide. I love the stuff. I use Rio on trout lakes and streams/rivers. I use P-line at Pyramid Lake (10lb) and on the Delta (20lb).

For indicator fishing for trout I use straight chunks, no tapered leader for me.

For dry fly I still use a tapered mono leader, but always add an 18 inch piece of flouro to the fly. Smaller piece of flouro sinks, but doesn't bother small flies. Big dries are no problem. I like the fact that the flouro sinks just under the surface, hate seeing Tippett on surface reflecting light leading to a dry fly. Could be a confidence thing here!

Never had a problem with knots slipping or fraying of the line. I have noticed some fraying when stuck on bottom and line is rubbed over rocks. I only use 3-4 knots, improved clinch, non-slip mono loop, double surgeons and perfection loop. All of these knots hold with no problems when using flouro. For anything heavier than 10lb I stick with the non-slip mono loop knot.

I think Ralph did a underwater test with flouro and mono. He posted pics here or on Blanton's site, maybe both. It was very enlightening as the pics kinda disproved the invisibility thing to me. I do not think invisible leader is a big deal. I really do not think trout care much about your Tippett leading to the fly; after all, how many bugs have you seen on/in the water floating around with a big piece of metal hanging from their rear ends and still the trout eat the fly. I would think that the hook curve would spook fish, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

That's my 2 cents worth!

[Frank Alessio]

I have used flouro for the last 9 years as a guide. I love the stuff. I use Rio on trout lakes and streams/rivers. I use P-line at Pyramid Lake (10lb) and on the Delta (20lb).

For indicator fishing for trout I use straight chunks, no tapered leader for me.

For dry fly I still use a tapered mono leader, but always add an 18 inch piece of flouro to the fly. Smaller piece of flouro sinks, but doesn't bother small flies. Big dries are no problem. I like the fact that the flouro sinks just under the surface, hate seeing Tippett on surface reflecting light leading to a dry fly. Could be a confidence thing here!

Never had a problem with knots slipping or fraying of the line. I have noticed some fraying when stuck on bottom and line is rubbed over rocks. I only use 3-4 knots, improved clinch, non-slip mono loop, double surgeons and perfection loop. All of these knots hold with no problems when using flouro. For anything heavier than 10lb I stick with the non-slip mono loop knot.

I think Ralph did a underwater test with flouro and mono. He posted pics here or on Blanton's site, maybe both. It was very enlightening as the pics kinda disproved the invisibility thing to me. I do not think invisible leader is a big deal. I really do not think trout care much about your Tippett leading to the fly; after all, how many bugs have you seen on/in the water floating around with a big piece of metal hanging from their rear ends and still the trout eat the fly. I would think that the hook curve would spook fish, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

That's my 2 cents worth!

Chris brings up a point I have not thought about for some time... Trout will take a fly with a visible hook point and all but when I was a Kid I had to hide the whole hook when fishing salmon eggs or the trout would just not bite... never did figure that one out....

[catch&release]

I have used flouro for the last 9 years as a guide. I love the stuff. I use Rio on trout lakes and streams/rivers. I use P-line at Pyramid Lake (10lb) and on the Delta (20lb).

For indicator fishing for trout I use straight chunks, no tapered leader for me.

For dry fly I still use a tapered mono leader, but always add an 18 inch piece of flouro to the fly. Smaller piece of flouro sinks, but doesn't bother small flies. Big dries are no problem. I like the fact that the flouro sinks just under the surface, hate seeing Tippett on surface reflecting light leading to a dry fly. Could be a confidence thing here!

Never had a problem with knots slipping or fraying of the line. I have noticed some fraying when stuck on bottom and line is rubbed over rocks. I only use 3-4 knots, improved clinch, non-slip mono loop, double surgeons and perfection loop. All of these knots hold with no problems when using flouro. For anything heavier than 10lb I stick with the non-slip mono loop knot.

I think Ralph did a underwater test with flouro and mono. He posted pics here or on Blanton's site, maybe both. It was very enlightening as the pics kinda disproved the invisibility thing to me. I do not think invisible leader is a big deal. I really do not think trout care much about your Tippett leading to the fly; after all, how many bugs have you seen on/in the water floating around with a big piece of metal hanging from their rear ends and still the trout eat the fly. I would think that the hook curve would spook fish, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

That's my 2 cents worth!

I can only tell you from my experience on stillwaters and I have ten of thousands of hours on stillwaters because I only fish stillwater and never fish moving water.

Many years ago I could not be educated from anyone on the aspect of floro out fishing mono. I caught as many fish or more than my fellow anglers and felt the price difference was a big was of time. Finally after many years of fighting what I felt was the good fight I put some time in and educated myself fishing two rods at the same time. Anyone who know me well knows I put allot of time in fishing two rods side by side, not so I can catch more fish but to prove a point to myself that fish do indeed see things differently than we might image. Example I will fish two midges the same body size, shape, color and just change the color of the bead head and have found that something that we find so minor makes all the difference in the world.

I fished three months, 40 days on the water fishing the same midges, nymphs, baitfish patterns, leeches, etc under and indicator the same depth and the same flies, one with mono and one with floor. My conclusion was I caught almost three times the fish on floro as I did with mono. I COULD NOT BELEIVE IT. Indicator fishing is by far the easiest inspection a trout can give your offering before they eat it. It is just sitting there awaiting inspection.

I changed about 15 years ago and never looked back! I prefer Seaugar for its suppleness and strength but of course we all have to find the best floro for us. As with all anglers who put thousands of hours in on our trade we finally strip away all the things we dont like or agree with and come up with our finished product that is the most productive for use as individual anglers.

I know for sure for me floro is much better than mono and worth the extra cash!

Just my humble opinion but do have 40 days of fishing both side by side to prove it to myself.

[JasonB]

Ernie,
Thanks for sharing your studies, that's a lot more convincing than most typical "angler observations" which seem to constitute the vast majority of our own personal conclusions. It seems that in your situation the primary advantage has to do with the "invisibility" factor? Certainly in still water situations I could see that making a much bigger difference than say a freestone stream. I'd be curious if you noticed a more marked difference in hook up rate ratios between say indicator fishing (very slow presentation with long inspection times), vs streamers (presumably a bit faster presentations)? Or did you find that there was a fairly similar advantage level there?

JB

[catch&release]

Ernie,
Thanks for sharing your studies, that's a lot more convincing than most typical "angler observations" which seem to constitute the vast majority of our own personal conclusions. It seems that in your situation the primary advantage has to do with the "invisibility" factor? Certainly in still water situations I could see that making a much bigger difference than say a freestone stream. I'd be curious if you noticed a more marked difference in hook up rate ratios between say indicator fishing (very slow presentation with long inspection times), vs streamers (presumably a bit faster presentations)? Or did you find that there was a fairly similar advantage level there?

JB

I only fished two rods with the indicator at the same time. I never thought about stripping two streamer rods and once although I have seen many anglers fishing rods streamer fishing from pontoons at the same time.

I also feel the floro allows me to fish one size tippet stronger meaning same hookups with 4x floro as 5x mono and have put in some time also doing this but it was only 5 days and it averaged out to be not much in difference in hook up ratio.

floro is allot more tuff and abrasion resistant although most of my fishing is in open water with not allot of structure to have to worry about. I do like the fact it sinks at a much faster rate than mono.

I know I drive people crazy fishing two rods at the same time but in my opinion its tells the whole truth instead of switching rods. if you fish two flies 5 feet apart at the same time and catch 18 fish on one rod and 6 on the other you know you fly does make all the difference in the world.

[JasonB]

Thanks Ernie,
I guess I hadn't really considered the logistics behind testing two streamers, that would be kinda tough to get the same level of comparative data. I was wondering since I fish probably 99% of the time on streams, and it seems quite possible that the differences would be more appreciable in still water or very slow presentations vs faster water/ faster presentations. Mostly my question is just one of curiosity, as I have way too many things that I've already managed to convince myself are worth spending extra money on. I guess I'm honestly kinda relieved that my own (limited) experiences have been as negative, as I already spend way too much on Fly fishing "stuff" as is

Regardless, I do very much value hearing the thoughts and experiences of others; especially those who have probably about 100 times the experience. Thanks again for sharing
JB

[jbird]

I have told this story befor here. I was fishing diamond lake a few years ago with a friend, things were getting tense in the boat because the extremely lopsided results. My buddy was being out fished 10-1. We compared our set ups over and over and just agreed it was a "lucky rod" scenario. For some reason I assumed he was using flouro. Most of us had been using it exclusively for years so I figured I didn't even need to ask. When he pipes up and asks if I'm using flourocarbon. He had been using maxima ultra green and switched to flouro. It INSTANTLY changed the game and he and I went fish for fish. That was the most conclusive experiment ive ever seen. When I was steelheading 250 days a year, I loved it for its sink rate. It just sinks so much faster than mono. Which puts your fly and keeps your fly in the zone longer. As for knots, no problems if you take care to lubricate it with water or spit. I love the stuff, and tho I hate the price, I gladly pay it.

[Walter]

I am with JBird on this one. I've watched the same thing happen with me. But I've also used good flouro line and BAD flouro line. You have to try everything for yourself. And tie knots well enough you can rule out operator error on that one.

A finer diameter has more natural movement in the water. Flouro often provides a greater pound test for a smaller diameter.

I personally feel there are times where everything has its advantages and disadvantages. Using things appropriately is the key. Flouro isn't always a necessity but it can make a difference in your fishing at times.

Pure Flouro line is expensive because of the mandated capture of the poisonous offgassing from its production, I have read and been told. It not JUST marketing and margins. But it's not always needed as a fishing tool. Sometimes you can bet your boat its highly recommended.

Ralph mentiond Stroft GTM as the best monofilament. Its actually a copolymer. Silicon and PTFE(a type of fluorocarbon). I got that from the distributor website. http://www.uniproducts.com/eng/produ...?noc=33&nop=77

Copolymers got a bad rap once, like everything does. "All you need is good ole mono." They call themselves mono. Its half and half. Sneaky!