Natural or Hatchery Bred....

[jbird]

Is this your bigot assclown impression? You wouldn't last one minute in the Castro sweetie.
So I dont want to hear that crap.

Walter says what a lot of us are thinking.

Really? Not exactly.

[winxp_man]

Walter says what a lot of us are thinking.

Most seem to think with their keyboard and when it comes time to get out and fish I just don't see the proof. Sp I would say I do not think like Walter. I have my own opinions.

What is it kill the hatchery fish ?????????? Really one of the hardest hitting fish for me this year was a hatchery hen and David was right next to me and just could not believe it! Like I said and will stick with my saying. Nothing can be done because the people in power just want money to line there pockets with. You can not simply say argue this subject without having to talk about politics and then the system used and everything else down the line.

So to say kill the hatchery fish here will kill the fish system in the American. Then to say that there is proof that hatchery are inferior to wild well I will simply say ok what about all the shit the hatchery went through to get back up a freaking river. Is is not the same hardships that a wild goes through???? Then when they spawn in the river system and produce young that will learn the way of the wild or if not they will die is it not the same?? These animal do not train there young ones the way they learn it themselves. So who are we to have to right to say kill them all????

Maybe we should start killing people with handicap issues because they are inferior to normal humans ??


So to say that I want to argue one thing with out the other in this steelhead issue just does not make sense so ladies and gentlemen why don't we just end all the back and forth smack talk because its just a pile of crap.

[Walter]

Bear with me. Hatchery fish are like alcohol.

If you don't get a regular piece if tail you go to a bar. You drink alcohol, you meet a girl. You get laid. You say, "awesome, I just got laid." When you wake up in the morning you look at your date and say, "damn, she wasn't as pretty as I remember. And I know nothing about her personality. I'm outta here."

Now, let's say you met that date through a friend, and you hit it off before you started drinking, and she also was good looking BEFORE you started drinking. That might end up being the best girl you ever meet. Something you remember. Something that you cherish.

When you have a ton of hatchery fish its like looking at the river with beer goggles. All those resources could do so much more.

****+Here, you can read about the midevil torture rack they use on wild fish in Idaho to extract eggs for the hatchery fish. Then they actually try to rehab the fish. What a joke. And this is the agency that came out with the study that hatchery fish don't have much of an affect on wild fish. Thats because Idaho DFG gets to them first! Haha!

http://m.columbian.com/news/2013/mar...elp-steelhead/

"Officials at Dworshak are taking notice of the egg-gathering technique, known as air-spawning. Ray Jones, a fisheries biologists there, said the method is much cleaner. But that isn’t the only advantage. Jones said air-spawned fish could be returned to the river. Most generally survive at least a few weeks and others longer."

These are precious wild fish. They don't deserve to have their eggs cut out or blown and squeezed out with an air pressure line to make hatchery clones. At least bonk them and let them not suffer more. Oh wait, then the hatchery would be taking wild fish...

And isn't that illegal??????

[winxp_man]

Walter have you ever been fishing in your life ???

[Frank Alessio]

Right on Aron....Walter needs to get a life... You just can not help some people.. God knows you have tried.....We need to Fish I have seen enough desert to last a life time...Are Aridillos good to eat. They sure are easy to shoot.....Call Me.....

[Walter]

Walter have you ever been fishing in your life ???

Plenty. This isn't a pissing contest.

May I respectfully ask if you have ever caught a wild steelhead, one that had not been in the river for over a month?

And Frank, Armadillos(I believe) are notorious for carrying salmonella. I wouldn't eat them. Bonk a hatchery fish instead, eh?

[winxp_man]

So Walter never said this was a pissing contest or anything of that sort. I also asked a serious question which again you seem to answer with questions if I have fished and caught Steelhead right out of the ocean. To which I can honestly answer no I have not. Not to go and say that the only time you can tell the difference between wild or hatchery is when they are at the first few miles of river that dumps into the ocean if not a way to answer the question if hatchery is inferior to wild fish.

TO SAY that I have not been able to tell the difference between wild or hatchery with fish that have been on the river for one or two months would not make any sense in your argument because even at the stage they are when I caught them the "WILD" fish should still be on top of hatchery no? Also I have released all of my fish I have caught this year....... Also this is my first year back into fishing for steelhead since about 04 of not longer.

SO to end my statement what good is a fish if you can only be in awe with by having to catch right at the beginning of a river that connects to the ocean? This tells me that there is not much difference between the two. So if both spawn in the river and the offspring make it back that is a wild fish which you seem to agree with. Maybe the hatcheries should stop cutting the adipose fins off and see if anyone can tell the difference Also what is your method of telling which fish is a harder fighter? Some kind of special scale that hooks up to your rod? I need to get one I guess.


Take care and have fun catching your wild fish. As for me I will catch what ever is in the water and willing to take a fly and enjoy it while its there.


Oh here is one to sooth your soul Walter.......... it can also be viewed in my 2013 steelhead thread I started. And still it did not fight as hard as the fish I mentioned earlier David was shocked at how hard it hit the fly and how well it fought.

[Darian]

Aron,.... Don't want to cause further problems here (this thread is about beating dead horse at this point) but I've caught many Steelhead at river mouths/estuaries and many upstream over the course of my life and can definitely confirm that not one I've caught miles from the ocean compared with those fresh in from the salt. It stands to reason that those freshly in-migrating fish have not begun to use their reserves. They're brighter/stronger and stunning in appearance.

Fish taken in these valley rivers/streams have swum more than a hundred miles in often turbid, mossy delta water to reach the American River (for example), longer to others. They have already started developing egg/milt sacks. Even tho feeding, they can't use the food they ingest as well as they were able to in the salt until they spawn.... Still fun to catch, tho, not as good to eat (IMO).

You owe yourself the treat of catching one down near the mouth of one of the Coastal rivers/streams. Hope you get a chance to do that soon.

[Walter]

Nothing about being close to the ocean.

But if all you catch is hatchery turds than you have no idea what you are missing.

Only maybe 5% of the hatchery steelhead Ive hooked have acted like wild fish in the water.

And my hatchery improvement/elimination arguments have not been in done so just for the sake of me, and what fish I carch.

If you are dependent on having hatchery fish to call yourself a steelheader than I suggest you rexamine the situation.


At risk of the publicity I have to confirm that what Darian says is correct and why we need better enforcement in places. I would love to have a chunk of hatchery budget money go toward another few wardens.

[shawn kempkes]

I agree with Darian. A fifteen pound wild Steelhead less than two miles from the Salt will tear you a new one. I have never had a hatchery fish jump like the wild winter fish do on the olympic peninsula do near tide water.