Natural or Hatchery Bred....

[DAVID95670]

another great photo

[jbird]

Lol! So weve gone from a pretty rich, civil discussion here to "Doesnt everyone see how wonderful I am?"
Your condescending words overshadow the credibility of your fishing prowess.

[shawn kempkes]

The great lakes fishery is amazing and they are bigger than the fish I catch on the American (35 in hand since jan 9 2013 all adults).

As a geneticist I can tell you they are all the freaking same, nature prevails and nurture is bullshit. They all fight they all swim they all fornicate and the offspring of hatchery fish are thus wild and unclipped. This arguement is complete crap. Get off the couch and catch some fish I have and every one of them has been swinging!

And they taste pretty damn good to boot. Here is the latest hatchery fish it is in my fridge if you want to inspect it before I broil it. I guess I am doing my part to eat my way through the hatchery fish this year. I also think the run is done I have not had a multi fish day in two weeks. Best day was 5 adults interestingly the last week of January 2013 were all wild (70% hens 30% bucks). And a premptive comment : I only fish swift moving runs so no bullshit a-hole comments about fishing Redds and yes these numbers are real I hope all the couch internet fools have their scrotums retract into their bellies when they realize how many fish an effect and proficient spey fly fisher can get to hand if you simply fish (twice a day 2 hrs at a time).

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[Darian]

So, it seems that by casting a wide net on a controversial subject a good discussion was generated for a while. I guess there's not much more to get out of this (learn), so, I'm "outa here". I did pick up a few gems along the way and it was fun for a while....

[stonefish]

Interesting thread. Since the Elwha and it's wild trout were mentioned earlier I thought others might find this steelhead study interesting. This wasn't just a few year study, but took place over 15 years with thousands of steelhead involved.
It seems that wild rainbows may if given the chance will play a key part in wild steelhead recovery.
I say may because states such as Washington still allow limits of two trout over 14" on many streams with wild steelhead runs.
As far as the Elwha goes, there are a ton of politics involved. Unfortunately with the large new tribal hatchery that was built, I personally don't think we'll get to see what mother nature can do on it's own. That is a shame because it is truly a once in a lifetime opportunity since so much of the river habitat is within the ONP.
http://ecotrope.opb.org/2011/01/stud...rainbow-trout/
SF

[Fish Guru]

You guys need to tell the Fisherman in the Great lakes region your Ideas on how bad Hatcheries are.... Go ahead give it a try... I will be watching the results.....This will be interesting being their entire fishery is based on Hatchery reared fish from the West coast....

You're missing the point here Frank, the discussion was centering on comparing hatchery to wild fish and the effects of hatchery fish on pre existing populations of wild fish. Not really sure what a fishery that is hatchery only and that never had wild fish in the first place has to do with this discussion. How on earth would they're hatcheries negatively or positively impact something that never existed is beyond me.

[Fish Guru]

You guys need to tell the Fisherman in the Great lakes region your Ideas on how bad Hatcheries are.... Go ahead give it a try... I will be watching the results.....This will be interesting being their entire fishery is based on Hatchery reared fish from the West coast....

The great lakes fishery is amazing and they are bigger than the fish I catch on the American (35 in hand since jan 9 2013 all adults).

As a geneticist I can tell you they are all the freaking same, nature prevails and nurture is bullshit. They all fight they all swim they all fornicate and the offspring of hatchery fish are thus wild and unclipped. This arguement is complete crap. Get off the couch and catch some fish I have and every one of them has been swinging!

And they taste pretty damn good to boot. Here is the latest hatchery fish it is in my fridge if you want to inspect it before I broil it. I guess I am doing my part to eat my way through the hatchery fish this year. I also think the run is done I have not had a multi fish day in two weeks. Best day was 5 adults interestingly the last week of January 2013 were all wild (70% hens 30% bucks). And a premptive comment : I only fish swift moving runs so no bullshit a-hole comments about fishing Redds and yes these numbers are real I hope all the couch internet fools have their scrotums retract into their bellies when they realize how many fish an effect and proficient spey fly fisher can get to hand if you simply fish (twice a day 2 hrs at a time).

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As a geneticist you should know that the offspring of hatchery fish that spawn in a natural environment are exponentially inferior to the offspring of wild fish. Hatchery fish compete with wild fish for spawning habitat and dilute the gene pool if they cross breed, amongst other ways they negatively impact wild populations of steelhead. The science has been proven over and over, how one can even try to argue this is beyond comprehension.
If you've caught as many as you state, there's no way you can say they fight the same as well. Hatchery turds do not hold a candle to the fight of a true wild steelhead. Occasionally one will give a semi spirited fight, but for the most part they are pretty weak in that area, yet another area where they are inferior. To each their own though.

[Frank Alessio]

My point is there would not be a fishery there without the hatcheries...All the rest on this coast is only guess work... Once man took the first step into the Forest and the River it changed the Game Forever.... When I fished the Grand Rhonde you could not tell what you had until you landed it.....The Planters in Dunsmuir fight great...When you call a Fish a turd I think you are operating on emotion and we all know where that gets us....

[jbird]

Yeah, while wild fish do tip the scales in favor of stronger fighters, I have caught some insane clipped fish And some turd natives. Ive caught some wild fish up to 7# that I stripped right in in 2 minutes or less. Alas this discussion WAS going in a much better, informative direction than this topic...

[DAVID95670]

As a geneticist you should know that the offspring of hatchery fish that spawn in a natural environment are exponentially inferior to the offspring of wild fish.

this is incorrect, genetic make up will not change how you spawn, nature prevails. I have no idea how this idea has ever taken hold. animals will spawn it is inate, and as a geneticist it is simple DNA is DNA there are no spontaneous recurring mutations when raised in a holding tank then released ...