Spearfishing for stripers

[Darian]

Mike McK,.... I certainly agree with your thoughts and thank you for the info you posted earlier and you efforts on this.

Mike O.,.... I think we might have an area of agreement in this (YIKES!!!!). I too support legal harvest by legal means and safety in doing so. I know that you're a diver and respect the spearfishers request for the change as they did nothing to misrepresent their position.

My problem with CSBA is the manner in which it was carried out (stealthy) and the fact that they apparently encourage catch & release fishing for everyone but themselves. Should know better as CSBA's sponsor page reflects almost all bay area charter/party boat operators and other commercials as sponsors. That in itself isn't bad but it appears that we (including me) have misjudged who we should've placed our trust in to protect the resource (e.g. Stripers).

Finally, I do believe that this change will result in some major conflicts in areas where divers and bankies (in particular) are fishing the same waters. Since many of our counterparts don't respect the need for room, now, just imagine what will happen when we're all occupying the same waters. Every AM at the head of "last chance" riffle a couple of gear guys plant themselves and claim the entire riffle while bait/drift fishing. These guys are obnoxious to the point of causing some incidents at times. Now, think about how that attitude translates to an area like the Feather River at Shanghai Bend, the Lower American or Yuba.

Wonder how long it will be before the survivalists (spell that homeless) along the lower American pick up on this I can't imagine they'll try to distinguish between Salmon, Steelhead and Stripers....

[bart]

Darian.I have been a member of CSBA since 1980.I started the expanshion to the point that we had 9 chapters and about 2000 members.
I was director of all chapt. for a number of years.The org.that you see today is a totally different group.They may now have 500mem.
I also sat on the org striper stamp.For many years untill i steped down,csba was the only people fighting for stripers on a daily effort,and we gained a lot of support from the dept.Now there are only afew guys in csba that care about doing the work that it takes to keep thatreputation.I have worked with Mike ever since he came on the stamp comm.Like i told Mike,i missed this completely.I knew that some diver was asking to spear in Black Butte Resv..I take responceability for missing this.I have been trying to retire from the political stuff and working part time for allied fishing group.I am very proud of the things we did,untill i stepped down.Mike can fill you in about me.

[Slice]

As previously brought up, there is a limit for stipers. People catch and keep them with hooks, legally. I have to doubt our waters will be flooded with with speafisherman. Im curious to see what the "limited areas" referred to actually are. Black Butte lake? Have a ball swimming around in there, spearfishing there seems more challanging than soaking bait with a beer in hand.

There is also the alphabetical list of waters with special fishing regulations which includes the A... Does a spear count as a barbless hook? This governs over method of take. (funny side note I saw in one of the topics brought up someone wanted to introduce the slingshot as an approved method of take, it was of course rejected)

Not a spearfisherman or trying to start an argument but I just think this may be a bit premature. I havent seen exactly what waters this ruling affects.

[Darian]

Bart,.... I hope what I've written so far hasn't offended you. I don't have any hard feelings about individuals in this. of course, organizations change as the membership and officers change. Sometimes for the worst. As in most organizations, there're do'ers and passive members. I thank you for the info you provided on the screens at the pumps in the Delta. That was very helpful in visioning what was happening down there.

Slice,.... I think there's a listing of the waters not involved in the documents in links posted my Mike McKenzie, earlier. Essentially, everything in the valley district, with the exception of Salmon/Steelhead Spawning areas appears to be open for Spearfishing under this change. To add a bit to your post, I think the change includes enabling use of bow and arrow for taking striped Bass, as well.

The largest, oldest and most fecund of the Striped Bass population in the valley appear to reside year around in the clear water rivers/streams as evidenced by catches publicized over the last decade. Virtually all of the largest Stripers come from the lower American, Lower Feather and Sacramento rivers, and San Luis Forebay/Reservoir. Spearfishers like to target large fish. These large Stripers are the spawners and no match for a spearfisher armed with a Hawaian Sling or a spear gun. I hope you're correct about their lack of interest. Otherwise, it'll be a long time before large Stripers appear on the west coast scene again.

[Mike McKenzie]

[QUOTE=Slice;125590] I have to doubt our waters will be flooded with with spearfisherman.[QUOTE]

Slice, IMHO you're wrong and do not understand the dynamics of the market fishing (poachers) and the
subsistence fishers. Both will do whatever they can to increase their take, especially the bigger stripers. Ask any enforcement Warden in the Delta about the "Mosquito Fleet"! There will be a large interest in spear fishing within those communities!

[QUOTE=Darian;125593] I think the change includes enabling use of bow and arrow for taking striped Bass, as well.[QUOTE]

Darian, Bow and arrows can only be used in Ocean waters not allowed in Inland waters...

Mike

[Darian]

In trying to find the source of the proposal to change the regs, beyond that of CSBA, I found that spearfishers were represented by a group named the Waterman's Alliance (WA). This organization made the formal proposal on the part of divers. A copy of the letter to the F&G Commission can be viewed in the link to a BB provided below. WA, apparently, enlisted the support of CSBA thru Joshua R., a person who may be a member of WA and who represents himself as a member of CSBA Isleton Chapter around February 2011. Joshua made a presentation to CSBA on spearfishing for Stripers in that time frame. A lot of info about how this came about and the sentiments of the spearfishers is contained in this link:

http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=140737

There are a couple of references in the posts on Spearboard that indicate DFG would not be an obstacle in proposing a change to the regs. The proposal, itself, was very brief and without any economic/scientific analysis supporting it. The same appears to be true of the CSBA request. Guess the timing was right.... At any rate, it appears the Spearfishers were playing with a straight deck but spearfishing in the ocean is a very different thing than in confined areas in freshwater. Since adoption of the change was recent, unopposed and gained unanimous approval, it will be difficult to modify. Maybe we could negotiate a change to allow spearfishing for Stripers in the ocean in exchange for relief in freshwater....

[Slice]

Slice, IMHO you're wrong and do not understand the dynamics of the market fishing (poachers) and the
subsistence fishers. Both will do whatever they can to increase their take, especially the bigger stripers. Ask any enforcement Warden in the Delta about the "Mosquito Fleet"! There will be a large interest in spear fishing within those communities!

Mike, Im sure i dont, my Knowledge of poaching is limited to what I glean from Wild Justice and what I see on the banks... Unemployed people soaking bait without a permit and hiding their catch. I suppose the market Poacher may take a more agressive approach. Keep us posted on the progress. I am curious to see a more clearly defined list of inland waters. Seems like the american, sac, feather, etc are off the approved list. Somewhat seems limited to lakes. The delta? Thanks, jim

[Darian]

Jim,.... I'm not sure I agree that the rivers you cite as not being on the approved list in the change. The language of the adopted change does seem to exempt Butte Creek and the Feather but parts of the American, Sacramento and Yuba are definitely included. If you read section 1505 of the F&G Code, it defines Salmon spawning areas in each river. For example, the code defines the Salmon spawning area on the American as starting approximately 4 miles above the mouth of the river. Each of the rivers named appears to have a lower section where Spearfishing for Stripers will be allowed. Looks to me like all rivers, lakes and reservoirs where Stripers live within the valley district, unless specifically listed, the delta and SF Bay will be open for spearfishing.

[briansII]

Jim,.... I'm not sure I agree that the rivers you cite as not being on the approved list in the change. The language of the adopted change does seem to exempt Butte Creek and the Feather but parts of the American, Sacramento and Yuba are definitely included. If you read section 1505 of the F&G Code, it defines Salmon spawning areas in each river. For example, the code defines the Salmon spawning area on the American as starting approximately 4 miles above the mouth of the river. Each of the rivers named appears to have a lower section where Spearfishing for Stripers will be allowed. Looks to me like all rivers, lakes and reservoirs where Stripers live within the valley district, unless specifically listed, the delta and SF Bay will be open for spearfishing.

That's the way I understand it too. My biggest concern is not spearfishing in the ocean, lakes, or the Delta, but the valley rivers. They will be much easier targets there. Once the word gets out, it could have a devastating effect on the spawning population. Doesn't take a genius to figure what happens from there.

If that wasn't enough to make you angry, finding out who brought and backed the proposal is enough to make you see RED!!!

briansII

[Darian]

Wonder if anyone (divers/DFG/us) has considered what will happen when spearfishers are in Delta waters and the pumps at tracy start up?? Since the currents are very strong, could a diver potentially end up in danger of being sucked into diversion screens along the channels?? My diving experiences happened so long ago, I don't have much of a feel for this.