more stream etiquette

[JasonB]

Slightly different topic from the recent thread on stream etiquette, this one just on wading situations. Lets just assume that this a popular stream such as the EW, or LT but on an "off day"; in other words there are a number of other anglers fishing the water but there's plenty of good water for everyone to fish rather than being jam packed. If it's jam packed I'm likely to move on or take up lawn darts instead of even bothering.

So I'm wondering what opinions more seasoned and worldly anglers have on these questions:
1) how long is reasonable to sit on a hole, at what point would one become a bogart? Does the number of fish hooked/landed affect this time frame in any way?
2)does this change depending on how many people are in your group? In other words should a person fishing solo move through a hole more quickly than a party of 2 or 3 that are sharing that water?
3)the brings up another issue: how many people is too many? what is a "reasonable" number of people in any given group, at what point does the size of your group become rude?

I'm asking partially for some guidance, as I don't want to be "that guy" who leaves others feeling P.O. and bitter. I'm also just curious what sorts of discussion some of these key points might bring out. I have my own thoughts on each of those, with the answers clearly depending a lot on the situation.

Seems to me that in the case of #1, it would become rude if one or more groups had already expressed interest in fishing the same water and you had either caught some fish out of the hole or had the chance to work the water with a couple of different fly set ups already. To be honest though sometimes I've been uncertain if I'm camping out too long, or if another person is pushing me out of that water before I've had a fair shake at it.

I'm thinking that in the case of #2, the group size shouldn't change things that much. Clearly 2-3 people need a bit more time for each person to get a chance, but on the other hand the impact in regards to other anglers wishing to fish that water would mean that others could have a hard time getting a decent shot at that water if each member of the party got to fully exhaust their chances at fishing it.

As for the 3rd one, I may be a bit of a grump on this one but I'm kind of a "two's company, three's a crowd" type. I've never really enjoyed big party groups in just about any activity that I do, and tend to avoid such scenes if at all possible... but that's just me.

curious at to what others think.
JB

[Mike R]

Here's my take on these scenarios:
1) As long as you want. If I'm in a good spot that I'm hooking fish, I'm probably not going to give it up. I didn't beat everybody else out here just so I can give my spot to the guy who slept in or spent an hour putting on their waders. If you're cool, I'll probably let you rotate through with me. I'll move when I'm ready.

2) Depends. When I fish in a group, we usually don't fish at the same time, but rather rotate through a spot. We may fish at the same time if it's a large area, though.

3) See #2. I have seen groups of 4 or 5, work a river as well as a solo guy and I've seen two guys that might as well have been a herd of cattle.

Mike

[Rossflyguy]

I agree with Mike. Its first come first served. This isn't an amusement park. Im not leaving a spot that producing. Who cares what others think. Just as long as your not snagging fish, killing fish, or stomping on redds then it doesn't matter what others think. Just don't be an a**hole and i think everyone will be fine.

[Fly Guy Dave]

I have to agree with Mike and Ross for #1. If I'm in the bucket, its doubtful that I'd be willing to give it up after a short time. Also, I believe the tradition on places like Silver Creek in ID and on the Ranch section of Henry's Fork, is that you show up early before the hatch and "stake out your spot" on the river. I've done that several times on those streams, sometimes out of necessity, since they can get so crowded.

However, if I'm working a nice piece of water and getting nothing for my efforts, I'll move along to try some new water and perhaps the new guy on the water has better technique (quite possible), or the hot fly, and they can get it to produce while I couldn't. Good for them, I say.

As far as #2 and #3, I'm with you when it comes to crowds, so I will often fish new and uncrowded water to avoid any run-ins with other anglers, thus making etiquette unnecessary. I have made an effort to avoid streams that are having a "fish out" or a "bash" or any other fishing event where hordes of anglers are all over the water. A part of fly fishing (for me, at least) is about getting AWAY from crowds, not seeking them out.

My dos centavos.

--F.G. Dave

[loganmike]

I've personally fished with MikeR and can attest that he is a no good low holing dirty swinger that catches fish. Seriously.

Hi Mike

me

PS: any ducks?

PPS: Need to ask a few questions about doggie hunting camp for the new pup!

[Dave E.]

Add another one for Mike R's response.

[jbird]

I look at it like this... If I come to a spot thats taken, I dont expect them to give it up for me. i'll find another spot. but then again, if someone wants my spot so bad that they hover and wait me out...I'll probably move sooner than I would have.

[JasonB]

I'm a bit surprised that all responses so far indicate that camping out on a hot spot indefinitely seems to be ok; first one there gets it in other words. I must say I have a different opinion on that one. I am not saying that I'd leave a producing spot after a fish or two, or after a short period of time. Still seems like there should be some "reasonable" time frame that would also allow others to get to fish that spot at some point. I kind of shudder at the idea of everyone racing each other to get that one good spot, with those who show up late not getting any decent water to fish... I have no intention of ever getting involved in a rate race for good fishing water and think that if it did come down to that I'd have to find another hobby.

I am new to this sport so maybe I'm way out there on this one, but I always sort of had this idea that it was custom to share the water with others. Seems like it would be reasonable to give it a fair crack, hopefully pull in a few fish and then move to the next spot. Apparently so far I'm in the absolute minority on this one, honestly kind of surprised.
JB

[jbird]

Jason, I dont think anyone is suggesting camping on a spot for hours and hours. If you do you are handicapping yourself, not the guys wanting to fish that spot. And it varries from one individual to the next. but dont expect someone to clear out of a spot just cause you are acting anxious to move in. the bottom line is to communicate with other guys on the water and it will all work out.

[Yard Sale]

How about fishing like nobody was around? No matter how "hot" one spot is I guess I'm more of a grass is greener around the bend type and like to go looking for the next challenge. Sounds kinda lame to just stand in one spot and clean up. But thats just me, and honestly I avoid places where there would be this issue like the plague!

On a related note I spent some time fishing with a F&G buddy Sunday. He was telling me about shocking a river for counts. Biggest suprise was how many fish were in places he had always passed up for more "prime" water. As in hundreds of fish... just a thought.