Staff Tipping at out of State Lodges

[Robert_17]

I just returned from an excellent fishing trip to Belize over the hollidays and I wanted to bounce something off the members here to see if I am over reacting or not.

First I have been to several lodges both in California and in Oregon and I expected to tip the Guiides every day for their service aside from what the lodge pays them (No problem there).

But in out of the State lodges it sems that the staff have all gone to the same staff service school by that I mean they all seem to say the same thing and I quote "We ask for tips so that we can give you great service". As an example my next trip is out of state and the cost to get there, fish for 5 days and fly back to California for one adult and two children is close to $15,000 for 5 days fishing.

The trip confirmation letter that I received back from the lodge indicates that the staff are expecting $650.00 per person in my party for the 5 days as additional compensation, the lodge is allready costing me about $2,000.00 per day and if I followed through with this I expect the 5 day trip to cost about $18,000.00, I don't want to seem like a tightwad but this all seems a bit steep to me since you only find out about the staff tipping until after the reservation is made what do you think?

[Jay]

Just spent a long drive home talking to my buddy about this exact thing. He is in a line of work where he gets tipped. For the most part, I am not. He raised a ton of great points that I never thought of. And I will feel much more comfortable with tipping in a way that I feel is justified from here on out.

But I can tell you one thing. The instant a $650 tip is expected from me, is the instant I leave a big fat f'in $0. That is just crap, and an attempt to weasel some guilt money out of you. I would even bet that the "staff" doesnt get to see the whole $650. Its Belize. They dont have $2500 mortgages to pay.

If youre not a waitress or a bartender, do NOT expect a tip from me. You might get one, but dont expect it. The only reason these people have the balls to tell you that a $1950 tip is expected, is because there are people that will go along with it so they dont look like an a-hole. Me, I'll look like an a-hole for $1950 and my self respect.

end rant

[Darian]

Robert,.... It seems to me that the actual cost of the trip is $18,000, given that the lodge already expects it. Your choice is to accept or not and go or cancel. In this case it's not really a tip regardless of what they call it.

Now, I'm not a big fan of tipping but, IMO, there're times when it's justified. One example, when I fish at La Ventana, I tip the panga captain for three reasons. 1) it helps him buy fuel for the next days fishing and 2) our captain has become a good friend and 3) we get additional bait when others are left out. That friendship has resulted in some good times on the water and some warm, home made burritos in the AM as we're going out for bait. MMM, MMM, fresh seafood....

Whether to tip or not is a personal choice you should make when making your decision to take a trip or use a guide. If that info isn't available on a website or in brochure, you should ask what the tipping policy is in order to reduce the number of surprises that can come up during a trip.

[jbird]

Those numbers are just insane! IMO

[Dave E.]

This sounds more like room service, where one might expect a 15% gratuity to be added to your tab.

If it’s not to late to cancel, I’d pull the plug on that operation and spend my money with one that appreciates the business - any business, rather than giving me the business.

The trip confirmation letter that I received back from the lodge indicates that the staff are expecting $650.00 per person in my party for the 5 days as additional compensation,

There's probably a pretty good reason why this $1950.00 piece of news is delivered via the mail and not with a friendly phone call.
I mean how many times per week would the lodge owner or manager subject themselves to having " Are you out of your _________ mind ! ", screamed at them, before they dropped this policy.


.......and by the way, welcome to the board.
Dave

[JasonB]

So first off I should say that I am in a line of work where I do depend on a certain amount of tipping to make ends meet, and fortunately I've been quite blessed with generous appreciative tips for the most part. I also have worked quite hard to provide an extremely high and rewarding level of service to more than warrant such gratuities (imo). I've never been a fan of the style of "tipping" that this lodge is utilizing, but let's put this into another perspective; just to play devils advocate:

First of all, are they "expecting" that much of a tip or is that number listed as a guide to help inform people on what is considered a "normal" or "appropriate" amount to tip? There's a big difference there. I'd venture that if they don't put that out in writing they may well end up with the staff getting very hit and miss tips, and quite possibly on the very low end. Having worked with a lot of Costa Rican raft guides, a number of them complained about getting tips on order of $2-$5 from some tourist who thought that was "a lot of money" for them (it wasn't). So that might be why they put that out there ahead of time to help ensure that this important detail doesn't get addressed until it's too late. I'd also point out that to me the total amount doesn't seem so steep really, as a 10%-15% tip is not normally considered that "high".

This money *should* be split between a lot of people if you're staying at a lodge where your rooms are made and your meals are cooked, transportation and guiding are provided... etc. I say "should" because I have no idea of the actual integrity of the owners or what the lodge policy on tip sharing is. You could also counter to the lodge owner that you would prefer to tip individually. I've worked in situations where some people elected to do things this way, although it often ended up with some staff members kind of being forgotten.

I'd also be curious as to what level of wages these folks are being payed, as it is possible that the lodge itself is using this "tipping" process as a means to not pay their staff reasonable rates, and hope that the "tips" make up for it. I would certainly hope that the lodge wouldn't take any "cut" from this money as well, but you never know... Just some things that I might want to ask around a bit to know more about.

I personally am a huge fan of tipping as a means to communicate and potentially adjust the cost of any service to the most appropriate level for any given situation. Both the client and the staff can end up with a cost/pay scale that is very satisfying and "just". I rarely feel that I have a ton of extra money to throw around (or any money really), but I always factor in some degree of gratuity into the cost. If I end up spending all of this "extra" money at the end of things, then it means that I was really happy with my service and I end up leaving quite satisfied but broke. If the service doesn't really knock my socks off, I might still leave some level of gratuity but probably no where near as much. I also think that a true tip should be a means of direct communication of your appreciation (or lack of), and this doesn't quite fit my definition of that at all though...

that's my 2%

[Robert_17]

Gentlemen, thanks for your thoughts on the above subject.

1. I probably did not write my post well enough to be clear about what I am concerned about.

a. I all ways tip the guides seperate and generally at the end of each day primarily because I know that they have to pay for certain costs out of their own pockets (Guides in Belize own their own Boats and have to pay for their boating supplies and for the mintenance on their outboard motors including having to buy new ones when needed).

b.This current Lodge is in Alaska and I am asking for feed back before I cancel the trip.

c. As far having to tip wait staff I again all ways tip 20 % of the final bill for the meal, that is only fair.

d. The part that gets me is that I am expected to tip everyone else based on what the Lodge is charging me for the stay. If I were getting the lodge at a cut rate price then I might consider making sure that all other staff received a tip but I think that if the lodge is getting $1000.00 per day then they should be paying their staff a living wage in otherwords if the Lodge were charging me a daily rate of $500.00 then I would tip the staff 20% or $100.00 per day to augment their salaries. I firmly believe that everyone should be able to make a living wage and I would be very uncomfortable if I knew that I had not treated Lodge staff well.

Just my thoughts,

Robert_17

[JasonB]

Gentlemen, thanks for your thoughts on the above subject.

d. The part that gets me is that I am expected to tip everyone else based on what the Lodge is charging me for the stay. If I were getting the lodge at a cut rate price then I might consider making sure that all other staff received a tip but I think that if the lodge is getting $1000.00 per day then they should be paying their staff a living wage in otherwords if the Lodge were charging me a daily rate of $500.00 then I would tip the staff 20% or $100.00 per day to augment their salaries. I firmly believe that everyone should be able to make a living wage and I would be very uncomfortable if I knew that I had not treated Lodge staff well.

Just my thoughts,

Robert_17

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one, I was trying to actually allude a bit as well. This is where I would start some inquiries if I were in your place. In other words, how is the tip shared, and roughly how well is the staff paid. I worked at a kayaking lodge where the standard was that the guides took anywhere from 70-75% of the total tip, and the kitchen staff and lodge cleaning staff, etc all split the remaining 25-30% so a $650 tip might end up being that the cooks, cleaners, drivers, etc all end up splitting about $150-$200. Then again who knows for sure how this lodge deals with that sort of thing.

I would want to know who would be getting gratuity from me, and ensure that anyone who I felt deserved $25 got $25 (or who deserved $100 got the full $100, etc). In our case I know that a lot of us felt that the tips tended to be large not just due to our expertise and help on the water, but also the comfort of the lodge and the high calibre of the meals being served (they were full gourmet meals that always drew rave reviews). In other words the "rest of the staff" probably deserved a bit more than they sometimes got in terms of tips, and in some cases that I know certain individuals left additional gratuities for the cooks.

I might be a bit different then some, to me a tip shouldn't be a set standard but a sliding scale (I've left anywhere from 0%-35%... so far). I do think that a lot of folks are really unsure of how and when to tip, so perhaps this lodge is trying to set forth some direction for those people??? I don't know, but I think that I'd just confront the lodge owners and clear up any and all questions about this before you go (if you go). One thing is for sure: any tip should NEVER leave the tipper feeling bitter about it as that goes totally contrary to the spirit of tipping in the first place. Hopefully it never leaves a bitter feeling to the people who are cooking and cleaning and guiding you either (or whatever other services are provided). I'm betting that you're not the only one who had some level of misgivings regarding the way that they are handling this issue, so it would probably be good for them to hear your feelings on the matter.

(must be getting close to my 10% by now)
JB

[Darian]

So Robert_17,.... Let me see if I understand this correctly. The concern is tipping the staff at the rate of $650 each (rate set by the lodge). The cost of the trip is approximately $15,000 (your figures). According to the range cited by JasonB, a 20% tip would be acceptable. 20% of $15,000 = $3,000.00; the difference you were concerned about....

Now, the terms set by the lodge and the tipping rates (whether or not set by the lodge) would not be acceptable to me. That's a personal choice. Of course, I wouldn't consider paying $15,000. to go to Alaska to fish for 5 days either. Unless this is something special (once in a lifetime) for your children, I'd cancel. There's a bunch of info out there about doing Alaska DIY.

Another alternative is to go somewhere south of the border to fish for some very big, salty fish for a third of what you're gonna pay to go to Alaska. The kids would love it....

[Scott Thornley]

If you're being flown out daily to fish, then you may need to throw pilots into the equation, not just guides/housekeeping/meal staff. $150/head/day in this instance sounds about right.

If there are not daily flights to/from the lodge, then $150/head/day seems steep. I bet if you work it out between guide/meal staff/housekeeping, you'll settle in about $100/person/day plus or minus...

Darian - the cost of the lodge is $10K. There's $5K in travel costs for three. So $1950 does equate to about 20%. But you don't tip the innkeeper for the price of the room. You tip their staff for service. How much of that $10K is your "room" cost? $3K? $4K?... I do agree with you on AK DIY. I'm also very lucky in that I've got friends up there that are happy to have me visit and go fishing/hunting if I do my share of chores and pay my share of costs.

Scott