Need some help with spey!!!!!

[Sandspanker]

Ok here in the NW the waters are starting to warm up. So when fishing for steelhead right now today the water is about 50-54 depending on the river. So would you begin fishing wet flies on a scandi line or still use skagit with little sink tips?? That is the frist question. The other one is about casting. So I can do a decent double spey with both a scandi and skagit heads. Perry poke with skagit and snake roll with the scandi. But at times the line just piles up and doesn't really lay out like it should ( tactical steelhead ) So am I blowing my anchor?? or what? any tips or hints? THanks

[Rick J]

I think a lot depends on the conditions and water you are fishing - more than just temp - high or low flows, cloudy or bright - I know I would rarely ever be without both a floater and a sink tip system for summer/fall. Winter, again depending on conditions, I am generally using some sort of tip.

You have not given near enough info to try and determine what is causing your casting mishaps. There are multiple reasons for messing up a cast. Are you doing touch and go casts or water-borne skagit casts? Wind may be playing a part.

My first advise for those starting out is they are almost always going too fast and too hard. Slow down and concentrate on every cast. One typical reason for weak forward casts is hooking the line behind you when forming the D loop - this does not allow the 180 degree rule and will often cause you to hit yourself or come close to hitting yourself. The other issue with short belly systems (both skagit and scandi) is coming outside of the box with your hands/arms. It only takes a very tight compact motion right in front of you, lightly gripping the rod so that you are creating a fulcrum around the center of the grip. If you find yourself reaching out to the side with your arms and hands above your head you are putting way too much effort into the cast.

If you can't get instructions from a competent instructor, I would buy and watch some of the better videos out there. SkgitMaster 1 is hands down the best skagit instruction video available. But John and Amy Hazel have a good beginning instruction video out as well as do a number of others. Watch carefully what the instructors hands and arm positions are.

Most folks watching someone cast look at the wrong thing - the rod and line - you should be watching the hands and arms to understand what they are doing to make the rod and line do what they do - it is all muscle memory so knowing what to do with your hands and arms and repeating this thousands of times is the only way to get good at this game

[Jeff Putnam]

Check out some video tips from my site (below). Use a skagit if your throwing big flies and a scandi if the bugs are med to smaller sizes for spring steelheading. Carry both heads because you may using your scandi then come to a deep pool where you have to get deeper, sunlight, fish behavior etc. It sounds like you're pulling your anchor. Keep the rod tip parallel on your backcast and watch it with your eyes. Also, the piling up of the fly line can be from, creeping forward, rushing the stroke, pushing with your top hand, on and on and on... Give the site a try first:
www.jpflyfishing.tv

Good Luck, Jeff

[Jaybinder]

Skagit Master changed my life! Ok maybe not but it has helped me a lot. The clear and concise directions can't be beat. I'm gonna watch it again right now!

[smokeater]

I think I understand the 180 degree rule but can you explain a bit more about hooking the line behind you? I seem to do that a lot with the scandi but not so much with the Skagit. I really liked my steelhead scandi but the fly seemed to come out of nowhere and zip right past my ear and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong.

[Rick J]

for the short belly lines the casting stroke is very short and as Ed Ward indicates in Skagit Master inside the box. I think the main cause for hooking is opening the wrist when going into the D loop formation. I will try to explain but difficult in words:An example - you are fishing river right and want to use a double spey - the first motion is a lift followed by fulcrum move that brings the rod tip from downstream to upstream - at this point your arms should be crossed in front of you and the center of the grip centered in front of you - I normally have my right hand under the cork at this point with my palm facing up and my wrist locked straight. On the sweep, I go around level or slightly angled up with the first motion out towards the river then around - this is where the hook happens - if you keep your elbows in fairly tight against your sides, there is only so far around you can go into the sweep and if you keep your wrist straight you will see that the rod direction is right into the 45 thrust position and the palm is still facing up. But many break their wrist at this point so it is open and reach to the side rather than staying inside the box - this carries the rod tip around more behind you and causes the line to wrap around rather than going out straight into the 45 thrust angle. Once you hit the 45 thrust, keeping your elbows in close to the body you just rotate your wrist up so the palm is now facing forward and then you come forward - this changes the casting plane so you now come a bit more over the top though normally the rod is still canted out to the side a bit.

This casting motion is very similar to a single hand overhead cast - the Belgian Loop where you swing the rod around and come over the top in a continuous motion - this can be viewed in one of Mel Krieger's videos from some while back - can't remember if it was his first or the advanced video

[smokeater]

Ok so in a nutshell(if I'm understanding this correctly), over-rotation on my sweep might be the cause?