Birthday Browns

[amoeba]

I dunno bigfly:

And, nothing to retract there Dan - someone else wrote that , it's a book, don't believe everything you read - and I'm not sure what the author is trying to say (maybe doesn't understand it himself). Again, there's a difference between "high water mark" as it is interpreted in CA case law (means just about anywhere a river ever has flowed, or tideland has every been inundated) and "ordinary high water" (which is a civil engineering term referring to a much lower, bankful flow, generally corresponding to the 1.5-2.0 year recurrence interval; AKA the "bank-forming flow"). Maybe the author talks about the CA cases elsewhere. I dunno. Anyhoo, this has gone through our courts all the way up to our State supreme court, and no sheriff is gonna mess with you, for being next to the river such as fishermen normally are (OTOH, the sheriff may mess with a landowner, who interferes with a legal right of navigation).

Bottom line: you don't need to be in the water.

On to reports - you're absolutely right on bigfly - lots of stupid stockers in the Truckee above Boca. Come and git em.

[bigfly]

A, sounds like you got into some fish.
We're glad it worked out.
Nothing wrong with an occasional stocker.
(Although many here would prefer a wild trout fishery.)
All we were driving at was, there isn't a problem with water access.
There is miles of it, we just try to get along with local folks.
No provocative behavior on/near private property. We didn't say, don't fish it.
We just stay close/in the water, for our neighbors benefit.. not because jon law may show up.
When visitors leave, we still have to live here.
The point, was not to focus on "that" particular stretch of water.(2mi.out of 30+water miles)
Even though it's pretty easy. Although not guaranteed.
Jim

[Jed Peters]

I dunno, I really like going up to the club with my host.

The Club is the genesis of west coast fly fishing, and has more fishing history than any group of individuals anywhere existing in the world. Literally.

I like having huge days there catching fish. I think it's fun, personally. Sure, it's not like fishing for 10 hours hoping to catch a couple big monsters (or even one) like elsewhere on the river, but it's a great experience no matter what.

99% of the time the people who are bitter do it out of envy of not having access. This is not a "haves and have nots" argument, just pointing out the facts as they have been proven to me.

I see this a lot with golf clubs as well, ironically.

[DFrink]

Just so we don't get inacurrate information flowing along here... The OHWM is an ambulatory liine, it moves from day to day. You can't walk where ever the river has "ever flowed". The Ordinary Low Water Mark is the boundary between the navigable body of water and the litoral upland owner, with a public trust easement between High and Low (for public use). If it's a tidal body of water than the boundary is the current Ordinary High Water Mark (not the highest water mark). I just want to make sure we have our facts straight here.

Dan

And one more thing:

I don't have to "stay in the water"; I can stay below the high water mark; which is wherever the river ever flowed; NOT ordinary high water - so I can walk on the bank, relatively near the water - and there's not anything the flycasting club can do about it.

That's the law. Learn it. Know it. Obey it. And if you don't, keep your flycaster/yuba outdoor adventure/etc. mouth-traps shut.

And - I'm going up there right now. Out.

[bigfly]

Let us not wake sleeping dogs eh?
I care not where people fish.
I could walk "that" water everyday.
Haven't in well over a decade.
Closer to two.
Just doesn't interest, or challenge.
But I'm in a vastly different place than when I started.
Everybody needs a little love.
How else can you keep up enthusiasum, till you get the hang of it.
My thing is stream health, and big wildies.
Stocking doesn't help either.
If the section of easy fish dissappeared, I wouldn't notice.
Jed.... fish on my brother.
Just don't compare natural to stocked. (Which you didn't.)
Does a burger made at home, cooked on the grill with love, tast the same as a Mac?
Not in my house.

Jim

[JasonB]

At this rate this thread may well regain it's original relevance before it dies... on my next birthday!!!

Not that ANY of this has anything to do with my original intentions for posting, but I feel compelled to comment anyways:
I'm a huge proponent of public access, and have always had a very strong distaste for the very concept of anyone or any organization trying to "own" a piece of flowing water. That will never ever sit well with me, just wrong from the core imo. That said, there are some issues with the publics right to use the river "below the average high water line".

Number one is that there is constant debate over just exactly what it means (for anyone who thinks that they know, just look at the variety of definitions offered so far in this thread alone). Landowners often have a very different definition than those looking to recreate on "their land". Then there's the issue of state vs federal definitions as they have very different versions. Then there's the courts; while for the most part courts have upheld the publics right to navigate most streams, not all court cases have been favorable to public access. For me though, the biggest issue to keep in mind when weighing out ones options and rights to any piece of water is how might I feel about public access if I was the local landowner. I don't think it's productive to start pissing off a lot of landowners along our streams; legal or not, righteous or not I think it makes sense to pick and choose our battles wisely, and with great diplomacy.

I've had some similar issues when kayaking mountain streams before, sometimes even needing to walk or drive through some private land to access the river. For the most part I've found that how smoothly and pleasurably my access to the water goes depends largely on how polite, respectful and empathetic I was when talking with the local land owners. While it should go without saying, we should probably say it anyways: treat any private land with the same level of care (or better) that you would your own land, especially not leaving trash all over (I was amazed at the amount of leaders we found and picked up on the EW).

As for "the club" and the "club waters" on the Truckee, I have to say that I just don't get it at all. Here's the way I see it: you have a world class wild trout fishery with a very healthy and self sustaining population of rainbow and brown trout (both of which grow quite large there)... and then someone feels the need to make two miles of it a "trout pond" by stocking it with planters because they are easier to catch??? I suppose I'm missing something... but I am most certain that it's NOT envy.

JB

[bigfly]

Jason, that'll teach you to make a fish report.
Looks easy till you try to do it.
Much like fishing the T.

Jim