Reno Fly Shop closing

[OceanSunfish]

Bill, as a small business owner and a huge "purchaser" myself, I have to respectfully disagree. You have good points, but remember, a business has to "adapt" to the changes in the world to remain relevant.

See also Leland Fly Fishing and The Fly Shop. They have strong online presence, and a great walk in business.

IMO, unless tax reform allows us, the vannishing "middle class" folks (who do the spending for product and services) to depreciate or even get a full tax credit for purchasing from small business, (pipe dream!) then yes, small businesses will most certainly have to adapt.... Of course, we all know that tax reform is never for the "middle class".

My question is how can real significant adaption occur when the manufacturer doesn't allow the reseller to discount to incite a sale or to meet competition?

Every electronic modern tool we have at our disposal today is created to assist us in being a more knowlegeable purchaser.... in other words, we're now conditioned to look for 'deals'. If this wasn't the case, then the Sunday paper would be razor thin, we wouldn't be looking for the Fry's ad each Friday, there wouldn't be ebay, etc.

I had written out my thoughts on how the industry could change from top to bottom, but deleted. It's too long. I think it's very viable tho.... and I'm not going to give my ideas away for free! <grin>

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

ifsteve----I've been following this thread and to this point in time have not posted any comments. Similar to you, there is no slam intended. I am making a statement about independent fly shops in general.

I agree with most of this discussion relative to supporting independently owned fly shops. For sure, support them even if you pay a slight % above MSLP...on smallish items.

Relative to your PS in your last post; I agree. Most especially about shop personnel behind the counter who have minimal amount of fly fishing experience. Sure they are helpful for newbies (which I imagine should be a high % of sales), but not necessarily for us "old timers" (a small % of sales?).

Yes we go to independent shops for the "customer service" and possiblity of interaction with other fly fishing junkies. I'd like to speak about some nuances about customer service; having been self-employed in both service & retail businesses my entire adult life... excepting 3 years in the corporate world.

This thread has not spoken about the attitude of shop owners and their employees. Having observed the fly fishing scene in northern California since 1970; I've seen or vicariously heard about both positive and negative attitudes displayed towards customers. I can re-count at least 4 shops that have closed during the period, the consensus was that the owner or shop employees had "attitude issues". IMO, two prime examples are being condesending towards clients or selling product inapproriate for the angler's immediate needs...to "make the sale". In the latter case, being perceived that the shop wanted to move product and not special order (which would reflect superb "customer service"). In either of the two examples, ultimately the customer may not return, go to competing shop or get product on-line.

hackneyed, but "my 2 cents"

Frank R. Pisciotta

www.flyfishingcalifornia.blogspot.com

[Jed Peters]

IMO, unless tax reform allows us, the vannishing "middle class" folks (who do the spending for product and services) to depreciate or even get a full tax credit for purchasing from small business, (pipe dream!) then yes, small businesses will most certainly have to adapt.... Of course, we all know that tax reform is never for the "middle class".

I'd listen to the rest of what you're sayin' if this wasn't so flipping out in left field and far fetched....

[JasonB]

This thread makes me kind of sad, and I agree 100% with the comments about small business owners struggling in the modern economy (particularly niche industries like fly fishing). I wont preach too much; I've certainly purchased many an item online or where I've seen a cut rate special deal... like many other folks, my wants FAR exceed my budget. That said, I think that there is somewhat of a false savings when we buy from the budget sources.

The idea of "survival of the fittest" is also somewhat misleading imo, when in reality there isn't exactly a level playing field between online vs "brick and morter" shops. There are many issues that make for uneven competition, but one of the big ones that Bill addressed is that the online retailers are actually taking full advantage of the facilities, inventory, and labor that the shops are paying for. I don't really see how any business model can survive that kind of pressure; where they must pay for the overall infrastructure and service that their competitors are able to utilize for free and be able to sell the same products for a lower price. I would hate to completely loose the real world, "mom and pop" stores, where I can go and talk with a person who knows the gear and takes the time to get to know me and my needs. And YES I actually do want a place where I can interact with a friendly person who shares my passion for fly fishing, who likely shares my love and concern for local streams and habitat...etc.

I think that the real issue here is more on the manufacturers side of things, and not just in fly fishing but in many other industries as well. If the manufacturers could look a bit further down the line than the next quarter or so, and consider the ultimate big picture, then perhaps they could make some adjustments on their end to even out some big discrepancies between online and on-the-street shops. To be clear, I'm in no way saying that internet sales are bad or that we need to stop online retailers altogether... just to address some issues that the manufacturers and retailers know are unfair, so that consumers will have more legitimate choices of shopping.

Sorry for the long winded rant... and I was only just barely getting started
-JB

[OceanSunfish]

I'd listen to the rest of what you're sayin' if this wasn't so flipping out in left field and far fetched....

"Left field" is generous..... I was thinking outer space myself.....

[Mike O]

I support my local fly shop as much as possible. What that means: I will buy anything and everything I can there that is at the same or slightly higher priced that what I can get it for online. But I simply can not justify buying higher ticket items at my local shop when I can save hundreds of dollars buying the same piece of equipmnet with full warranty from some internet source.

As an example, if I want a new Abel reel my local shop can only sell it at MSRP. Now they will throw in a fly line and spool it all up with backing. But that still costs me $$$ compared to buying the reel say off ebay.

I feel bad for the local shops and the ones that seem to make it are the ones that sell a TON of smaller stuff like flies, leaders, tying materials, etc and enough rods and reels to have some in the shop. I love the owner of my local shop and have been friends with him for 30 years and will suppport him all I can.

But I am a working stiff like most everybody else and if I can save some significant dollars from buying elsewhere then I would be foolish to not do so.

Steve

PS - And one thing that is overblown is the "knowledge" you get from a local fly shop. I think this is true for begineers and yes they have more current information but in general when you have been fishing an area for a long time you probably know more than the 20 something guy behind the counter. This is not meant as a slam or negative at all just reality.

Add my +1 to this entire post

[cachanded]

I purchased my first fly rod there in 1980; some sage something or other. some time later after lots of help and encouragement from them I bought my first high end rod: a 5 weight Winston JWF...which interestingly is one of the few rods I have never considered selling, and the very one I taught with, and have since handed down to my son.
While I have since relocated to Oregon many years ago, I will fondly recall the mentoring I received from the gang over there. A sad day indeed.

Kurt