Davis Lake 7/11-7/17

[FRSam]

Hey Paul...I thought it might belong to the Grebes as there was a pair just off shore keeping a close eye on me - there were four eggs all still intact. There were also quite a few broken egg shells along the shore line that looked like they had been dinned on by something.





Those grebes are one of my favorites - that mating run/dance they do across the top of the water is the best - you just can't help but smile.

No, I didn't see any snails at all...Davis without snails is like a lake without water...hopefully ma nature can fix that problem...

What I don't understand is WHY...there was no problem with snails after the first treatment in 97' and now here we are after the second treatment with no snails. But you know there some snails after the second treatment - not many but some. I can remember seeing them on the shore line of the grizzly creek channel just last year. But I sure haven't seen any lately and I've looked.

Pete

[1flyfisher]

Wow 4 eggs!!! 2-3 is the usual. Those are mostly Western Grebes with some Clark's grebes. Yep there are plenty of nests like that. The seagulls will grab the eggs. I saw a seagull kill a baby goose (yellow plumage) 2 years ago. Snatched the goose right off the bank a few feet from the mom and flew to the other side of cow 50 feet up from where I was parked. The mama goose was going nuts and chased after the gull to my side of the bank but she got scared because I was there and stopped. I rushed over but the gull picked up the still alive baby goose and flew to the other side of cow and dropped it again, The gull was pecking it to death. I went to save it but it was too late.
I picked it up but it was dead. I left it for the gull.

The seagulls are catching the shit out of the crawfish right now in cow creek cove. I watched them dive down and pull up a few dozen the other evening. Right in front of my van. They fly to shore with them and eat the body and discard the claws. That is why there are tons of crawdad claws all over the shoreline. We all were wondering why the hell there was so many crawdad claws on the shoreline at cow. Then one evening I saw a gull dive into the water and come up with something. I put the binos on em and it was a crawdad. If you want to do some birding while at davis go to cow in the evening, crack a beer and sit and watch the seagulls. They do it a bit in the morning but mostly in the evening. Must have something to do with the angle of the light enabling them to see them better or perhaps the crawdads are doing something more active that enables the gulls to catch them more easily. They don't do it during the day much. The other night they were going crazy on em. Dozens were caught.

The lake might be sick but still some good birding. I had a bald eagle fly right over my head 100 feet up. Also saw it the next day on freeman point.

Hey Paul...I thought it might belong to the Grebes as there was a pair just off shore keeping a close eye on me - there were four eggs all still intact. There were also quite a few broken egg shells along the shore line that looked like they had been dinned on by something.





Those grebes are one of my favorites - that mating run/dance they do across the top of the water is the best - you just can't help but smile.

No, I didn't see any snails at all...Davis without snails is like a lake without water...hopefully ma nature can fix that problem...

What I don't understand is WHY...there was no problem with snails after the first treatment in 97' and now here we are after the second treatment with no snails. But you know there some snails after the second treatment - not many but some. I can remember seeing them on the shore line of the grizzly creek channel just last year. But I sure haven't seen any lately and I've looked.

Pete

[1flyfisher]

Snails

After the first treatment in 97 there were definitely many snails for a few years (like 3-4, maybe 5?). They slowly started their decline after the first treatment. The ends of fugawees points always had tons of snails on the bottom. Jay and Glenn were always fixtures on those points and I would go rap with them and fish and see snails on the bottom there. Of course they were floating all over the lake too but those points held the tiny small juvenile ones on the bottom. The way the wind blows would always bunch them up right there. And very often the points are about from a few inches deep to 2 feet deep and that shallowness extends 50-100+ feet out into the lake and the points would catch them with a south/south west wind. About maybe 7/8 years ago they began their decline. That was about 3-4 years after the first rotenone treatment so that may have had a delayed effect on them.
Last year I saw a few remaining and hoped the high water would wash them back into the main body of the lake. sadly I can't find a single one. Something has killed them off. It has to be something to do with the water (rotenone???). God only knows what has caused it. I wonder what CADFG knows????

all I can figure is the rotenone had a delayed effect on them and the second rotenone 3 years ago was the nail in the coffin for them.

[FRSam]

I'll be damned...that's what's going on with the crawdad claws scattered along the shoreline. I was fishing the other day with my brother and his son on the north end of the lake and we were treated to a show where the osprey hits the water, picks up a fish and takes off for his nest only to be intercepted by a bald eagle mid-air. The eagle knocked the fish out of the ospreys talons and caught it mid-air and off he went. I've seen this a couple of times now - it's quite the show.

Yesterday I went down to the Eagle Point far cove with the snag just because I hadn't been down there in a while. A couple of osprey were nesting in the tree...




I also saw a pelican fly over head with a wad of fishing monofilament wrapped around his legs - unfortunately there wasn't anything I could do.

Fishing is always about the fishing...

Pete

[1flyfisher]

Yep, its the seagulls. If you are at davis in the evening again Go check it out (right there at cow) right before dark, starting around 7 pm like clock work and verify it because No body believes me. I noticed this a few years ago for the first time. I have seen em get them in 4-5+ deep water. I still have yet to figure out how they do it. I will bet anyone anything (case of beer) that doesn't believe me I will show them a seagull catch a crawdad.

I have seen bald eagles and ospreys go at it about a half dozen times. First time was on martis back in the day. LOL another screwed up lake I loved!!!! They were twirling and spinning around. This was when the osprey didn't even have a fish. They just go at it. Last year I watched a bald eagle dive bomb an osprey with a fish but it never got the fish. It would dive almost vertically so fast its feathers were rippling from the g's and making a noise like a kite sounds in the wind...if you know what I mean. But they didn't impact. I have never seen an impact or a fish steal yet. Too cool huh?

nice pics.

I'll be damned...that's what's going on with the crawdad claws scattered along the shoreline. I was fishing the other day with my brother and his son on the north end of the lake and we were treated to a show where the osprey hits the water, picks up a fish and takes off for his nest only to be intercepted by a bald eagle mid-air. The eagle knocked the fish out of the ospreys talons and caught it mid-air and off he went. I've seen this a couple of times now - it's quite the show.

Yesterday I went down to the Eagle Point far cove with the snag just because I hadn't been down there in a while. A couple of osprey were nesting in the tree...




I also saw a pelican fly over head with a wad of fishing monofilament wrapped around his legs - unfortunately there wasn't anything I could do.

Fishing is always about the fishing...

Pete

[Troutstalker55B]

Pete, Paul,

I found fish last August and Sept. that had Crawdads in their bellies and were looking for them in the shallows - I even C&R several on a Crawdad pattern #8 3xl hook.

As for the snails, in 2001 the FS and DWR lowered the lake at a rapid pace to fix the boat ramps and dredge Honker Cove. At the time there were hundreds of snails in the shallows and they were left high and dry on the bank when the lake dropped. Since then I have seen a steady decline until last year when they showed up in the northern lake. At one time the snail was king at Lake Davis and that was the only pattern I fished!

Only time will tell. I'm now waiting to see if the Kirby's Backswimmer hatch will come off, there can be a good game from first light until 9am or so in very skinny water. The takes are fierce!

Jon.

[1flyfisher]

There are now bazillions of crawdads in the lake. I see em swim away alot now while paddling about. I imagine all the dead fish (07 rotenone) that sank to the bottom have been a food feast for them and really upped their populations. I never saw tons of claws all over the cow creek area shoreline back in the 80's or 90's or after the first rotenone. And I never saw seagulls catching them before, up until a few years ago. Like right after the rotenone in 07. That would be 3 years and when I first saw the birds catching them and claws all over. Nonetheless I see no detriment to their currently large population. The fish will eat the shit out of them. At least they have that food source. Me....I'd rather have the snails around for them. Better yet both.

You have a power boat and get around. Have you been over to the east shore lately? Any snails there? I haven't seen a single one. WTF! So no more crunchy bellies? That sucks. We gotta have the crunchy bellies again. Snails were the major food source to fatten up fish before winter to help them survive the harsh winters in davis lake. They have had it hard enough with population survivals in davis's entire past even with the snails. Now the fish lose that high protein, high energy food source to store up energy for winter survival. Not good.

We (you and I) have theorized on this snail decline before. I can see lowering the water levels having a temporary impact on the snail population. But why would it have an ongoing effect and result in a population decline over a period of many years? Let's say lowering the water kills 50% or even 80% or 99.9 % of the snail population. There are still enough survivors to restore the population. The population would snap back over time not continue to decline. After 2001 there were still many snails around scattered about the lake. All it takes are a handful, they breed like rabbits,,,,eeerrr I mean snails....Last year I still saw a few snails alive. Now I see none. I have raised/had snails in all of my aquariums before. Some of the Same snails as where in davis. Ramshorns, pond snails, apple snails etc. They reproduce like crazy. All it takes are a few and boom you have tons more. A good example of how quickly snails can reproduce are the problems with invasive species of snails the bad snails like the New Zealand Mud snails invading ca waters. Easy massive population growth from just a handful. Aquarists, koi ponders always have had to deal with the rapid population explosions of unwanted snails. There aren't many ways to get rid of them. About the only sure fire method is poison.http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Control_re...h_water_snails http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/...wn_Snails.html GOOD Snails are HIGHLY important to davis. They eat decaying plant and animal matter which in turn reduces ammonia levels and spikes. Davis as we all are aware has massive plant growth. When that decays it increases ammonia and c02 levels and reduces oxygen levels. The snails used to eat all the dead weeds throughout the winter and reduced toxic spikes from the decaying plant matter. They eat dead animal stuff too and clean the water in various ways. Very important to maintaining water quality. I have to believe that it is some environmental factor as far as the water quality. Seems like it has to be something due to the water. Low water levels producing higher ammonia levels? Higher alkalinity? Lower oxygen levels? How about the rotenone having a delayed effect? Poisonings and chemical exposure can do that. They can slowly kill off life. Not everything dies immediately from chemical/poison exposure. (((((I am just speculating here))))) because I have no hard facts,,,,,just guessing and theorizing. BUT FACT is something has killed off the snails. What it is,,,,I do not know??????? Likely the rotenone slowly over time. That's my theory anyway.


Cadfg would have to take snail samples(LOL if they could find any!), and water quality tests and conduct an indepth study to figure it out. If they actually cared. Aren't they responsible for maintaining the wildlife around and in davis lake post rotenone treatment? I mean we are having an entire species and major food source for a trophy trout lake disappear. Arguably the major food source for davis lake. That was what davis was about, snails and damsels. Fat crunchy trout bellies packed with snails each fall. Snails and a kick ass damsel hatch(which has dramatically declined). Aren't they liable for any damage to the wildlife and area and lake for using rotenone? Ask bob about that he would surely know.

There are still plenty of backswimmers, water boatmen, beetles etc in the lake. I was looking at them the other day.

I am waiting to see if the motorboat caddis hatch comes off.



You know what. I should have thought of this before. I will call around to some aquarists, (I'm an X aquarist and far from an expert on water quality or snails) these folks are highly knowledgeable about water quality and maintaining water quality, and what could kill snails in a lake and their knowledge certainly rivals biologists and other professionals in this area that I don't have access to.

Pete, Paul,

I found fish last August and Sept. that had Crawdads in their bellies and were looking for them in the shallows - I even C&R several on a Crawdad pattern #8 3xl hook.

As for the snails, in 2001 the FS and DWR lowered the lake at a rapid pace to fix the boat ramps and dredge Honker Cove. At the time there were hundreds of snails in the shallows and they were left high and dry on the bank when the lake dropped. Since then I have seen a steady decline until last year when they showed up in the northern lake. At one time the snail was king at Lake Davis and that was the only pattern I fished!

Only time will tell. I'm now waiting to see if the Kirby's Backswimmer hatch will come off, there can be a good game from first light until 9am or so in very skinny water. The takes are fierce!

Jon.

[bigfly]

Please don't give those cods that transplant Smallies any ideas.
It would be the final straw for Davis. Picture a third treatment.
They are hoovering the trout fry in Prosser, Boca, Stampeed, and Tahoe lakes.
Personally I think 2-3 bass tournements a year, with a fish fry afterwards, is a great idea, but not enough to offset the damage done.
Not to one up on Jay, but I've landed a couple 6+Lbs. Been broken off by a few bigger fish as well.
I use an 8wt XP with a Rio 300gr. line. to strip a #4 Rainbow/Redsides minnow.
Bertha Bass loves little fish.

Jim

[1flyfisher]

We aren't giving anyone any ideas, we are just talking about all the illegal fish that ended up in davis and elsewhere. People do that all the time already that's how the dozens of different types of fish ended up in davis and smallies end up every where. Those skid marks that do that aren't going to need ideas from a flyfishing message board discussion that mentions, "surprisingly smallies have never ended up in davis" or folks talking about all the illegal fish that have been dumped in there and elsewhere.....sadly folks that do that already move fish all over screwing up all sorts of fisheries. They don't care.

I use a small minnow pattern to represent the japanese pond smelt on almanor.

I have to admit smallies are fun to catch and eat......smallies are a great fish, but i also don't want to see people moving them around. Or anything else for that matter.....especially you know what,,,,,which still is in lakes in NV.

Please don't give those cods that transplant Smallies any ideas.
It would be the final straw for Davis. Picture a third treatment.
They are hoovering the trout fry in Prosser, Boca, Stampeed, and Tahoe lakes.
Personally I think 2-3 bass tournements a year, with a fish fry afterwards, is a great idea, but not enough to offset the damage done.
Not to one up on Jay, but I've landed a couple 6+Lbs. Been broken off by a few bigger fish as well.
I use an 8wt XP with a Rio 300gr. line. to strip a #4 Rainbow/Redsides minnow.
Bertha Bass loves little fish.

Jim

[Troutstalker55B]

Paul,

You make some really good points and as I take all this in I feel it is a combination of factors, some we know about and some not. I have not seen a single snail since last fall, and even then they were not the robust size snails we are used to seeing. Remember how back in the day the wind would come in and most anglers called it a day, and we would anchor up in a bay, and watch the floating snails get gorged on by big rainbows. All it took was a floating line and a simple Jay Fair snail, and just let your fly soak out in the waves with very little movement - You just had to keep a tight leash. Those were some good times!

Dad has been sending DFG formal complaints on this issue and many others and they are not listening at this time - I think they are fed up with the lake and all the $ that has been dumped into it. Maybe it's time we treat Lake Davis like Eagle - Close it down Dec. 31st to the end of May, reduce the daily limit and x number in possesion, and no use of livewells, ect. I'm all for it but that is just my personal opinion.

Let me know what you find out about the snails.........

Jon.