Redds

[OceanSunfish]

OK I have to chime in here, I know I am going to draw some heat for this but here it goes....I have worked for/with some really good fisheries guys in this state I am no longer in that line of work but I keep my foot in the door, I have even done some work studying salmon redds, you really have to work hard to hurt one of those things. I am also good friends with a couple big time fisheries guys and asked them about this yesterday..their opinion was exactly what I thought it would be...you pretty much have to get in there and make a huge effort to cause damage...if you are carefully wading around the areas you are not doing damage. just my 2 cents

There is some merit to what you say above. I'm not a biologist by any means, but I do know that BEARS are usually a lot bigger then the average fisherman and they seem to have run around redds quite a bit during our planet's natural history. You think through evolution salmon learned to build redds to withstand bear prints <grin>. (I understand that bears don't do the "san juan shuffle" though)

IMO, there is a fine line with regards to our urban rivers and purism. I'd rather see people out fishing, supporting our local fly shops, and being educated over the years about conservationism for ALL fish and waterways instead of closing the river to access/eliminate more fishing opportunities, just to preserve a few redds. Keep in mind that this is an URBAN water/fishery convenient to many to start, pratice, hone, and become accomplished/product consuming anglers.

BTW, that big old ugly cement wall just upriver of the man made spawning areas sealed the deal a long time ago, so why not leave the 'spawning' to the hatchery folks and just let people fish, which by the way, is an opportunity that is doing a pretty good disappearing act as well.

I'm not clear as to what is right or wrong here, just providing another viewpoint for the sake of discussion.

[Black Cloud]

I'm glad to see this turn into a healthy discussion as to what to do. This is the first year that I've seen signs about the redds, they were placed by fish and game and they do say please avoid stepping on or disturbing redds during spawning and incubation season. I don't think they were talking about the bears.

James

[shawn kempkes]

last winter flyfish america in the annual steelhead issue,published an article on steelhead fishing over reds. The author advocated sight fishing and targeting the males.
It sickens me that a flyfishing magazine would print that excrement. I will never pick up that magazine and I cancelled my subscription to Fly Rod and Reel . Frr publishes that magazine.

[Mike R]

I agree with you Shawn. Over and over I see people pulling fish off of redds, regardless if they are aware of it or not.

Do I want to see rivers closed to keep people off the redds? No.
Do I want to see rivers closed to keep people from pulling fish off redds? Yes.

It seems like there are two issues here that we need to address. If you see a redd, don't try to walk through it. Just make your way around it (A few feet is fine. They aren't big). If you see a fish in a redd, leave it alone. Real simple.

Mike

[sierrapac]

Though there is no actual scientific study that has shown that walking on redds has any impact on the population of Salmon & Steelhead (based on an interview with a DFG fisheries biologist)there is anectdotal evidence that during the years after the river was closed during the winter months, that the number of Steelhead halfpounders increased. Disruption of redds has very little impact on the total population as Steelhead and Salmon are dependent almost completely on hatchery production. Natural production is relatively insignificant as far as the total population is concerned. Where the distruption of redds may possibly have an impact is on what we call "Half Pounders". which in the American River are simply Steelhead smolts, which live in the river for around two years before going to salt water. Hatchery Steelhead are released in the delta so one could assume that "Half Pounders" found in the American have been naturally produced.

I don't think that there is enough evidence that wading in, on or around redds causes enough damage to the Salmon/Steelhead populations to warrant closing the river. I do think however, that the DFG or some other entity (how about Fly Clubs) should put up signs at Sunrise and Sailor Bar etc. (at the trails leading out of each parking lot) with a photo of what a red looks like, and ask fishermen to stay away from areas where redds exist. I think it would be a little embarassing to be seen poking around all those redds in the flat above the island at Sailor Bar if there is a sign present. I think that over a period of time it might have some effect.

[590Mike]

Sierrapac
Nicely put and a sane intelligent perspective I might add. I have been an advocate of closing spawning beds for years. But since they are open I fish around them and do not wade through them.

Its a good thing you posted as I was getting to e-mail my psychiatrist and probation office for a good pic to post since I have fished the Upper American.

[Fats]

This is the first season I have ever wade fished rivers that are anandroumous?...anadromous?...androgynous?...anero genous?...applesaucerous?...(rivers that run unobstructed to the ocean). I imagine as the years pass I will learn where the redds usually are in the rivers I fish, but for now, I often find mysef unknowingly wading to within sight of the redds. I either back off or detour around (upstream, if possible) the bright gravel patches, but worry that I may be treading on older redds that aren't as bright. I would like to reiterate Fats' question; will a redd remain easy to see (algae not re-covering the rocks) until after the eggs hatch and alevin leave? How wide a berth do others give these bright patches?
Thanks,
Kurt

It seems this question will not be answered... I know in some Rivers they stay bright for quite a while... Salmon Redds still being descernable during the spring run with the steelies spawning in the same areas. Other rivers... they darkened up really quickly.

I guess we will have to try to observe this for ourselves...

[mr. 3 wt.]

Bottom line, it doesn't help trampling in and around the redds. Maybe it doesn't hurt all but even a small percent is to much these days with dwindling runs. Education has to start somewhere. Right here right now is the perfect place. If it doesn't, these fools will be up on other more sensitive rivers trampling around.

[590Mike]

Fats
I was told" wade around and below if you can", but, you have to be looking out for the bed. They are easy to spot as they look " arranged". There is a side channnel you can sometimes see them from the bank, PM me. I won't post the directions here so drop me a line.

If we get any amount of snow this year, next year will be a non-issue as when the flows are normal that is some hairy wading.

[MarcP]

I would like to reiterate Fats' question; will a redd remain easy to see (algae not re-covering the rocks) until after the eggs hatch and alevin leave?

I believe that the answer to this question is quite variable from year to year and system to system. There are many different factors that can determine the epilithic biofilm/periphyton response following the bioturbation associated with redd construction including but possibly not limited to: limiting factor governing photosynthesis (light, Ph, N), grazing by benthic browsers, temp, and flow regimes. I would say just exercise respect/caution in areas where you have seen or do see redds (and what ever you do don't let Black Cloud get your pic ).

MarcP